[pp.int.general] where is the manifesto?

[Reinier Bakels]

Good morning Richard,
I think a Pirate Party that strives to be a serious, mainstream political 
party rather than a marginal extremist group should not even think of such 
ideas. If only imho there are plenty of opportunities for dramatic 
improvements that are much more realistic.
On the logic of you reasoning: property rights become property rights 
because of their properties (characteristics), not because legislators 
explicitly decide to do so. So it would not help if legislators simply say 
"this is not a property right". The essence is that one can not take away a 
right from someone that represents a (monetary) value (well, there are 
exceptions, such as taxes and fines, see art. 1 of the first protocol to the 
ECHR). And I repeat: the European Court of Human Rights can enforce the 
ECHR. All Council of Europe member states participate, even Russia. Only 
Belarus does not participate - perhaps you could cooperate with president 
Lukachenko?
Well, a right that is non-transferable and non licenceable would perhaps 
meet the requirements not to be considered as a property right. The moral 
right associated with a (European) authors right is that kind of right. So 
indeed moral rights could be abolished without problems withe the protection 
of property (in the above sense). But I believe, if any aspect of author's 
right shoulod be preserved, it is the moral right.
But the  essence imho is that there are much better options. That also work 
for the present copyrights - that still last for 70 years after the death of 
the present authorrs - well into the 22nd century. Unless they are 
expropriated - but that requires a fair compensation, amounting to sums well 
above the sums currently paid to stabilise the financial system, and to save 
the economy in general!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard M Stallman" <rms at gnu.org>
To: "Reinier Bakels" <r.bakels at pr.unimaas.nl>
Cc: <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] where is the manifesto?


>
>    and investigate the reason for such a right. Some human rights 
> provisions
>    can be changed by a (complicateed) democratic process, but others 
> can't,
>    like the first 20 articles of the German constitution - which include 
> the
>    "protection of property" provision.
>
> I can see two ways around that:
>
> * To declare that copyrights are not property, so this does
> not apply.
>
> * To declare that if the state, by legislation, can constitute
> a new kind of property, it can also, by legislation, disconstitute
> that kind of property, in a uniform and fair way.
>
> Under the latter provision, confiscating one copyright might
> require compensation, but shortening all copyrights would
> be as legitimate as lengthening them all.
>
> The operative general principle is that unjust privatization
> which oppresses the people must not be impossible to relieve.
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