[pp.int.general] "Natural" law

[Carlos Ayala Vargas]

Reinier Bakels wrote:
> Oops, they will be very concerned, not to be respected anymore by 
> Carlos Ayala!
Hey, it was a joke! Amazing.

And coming back to the real thing, actually, if they're not concerned, 
it doesn't concern me. What concerns me is to counter and deny, from 
their stances, those that are false; what concerns me is whether 
citizens do believe such lies or not.
> I am afraid the actucal dynamics of the emergence of opinionsand their 
> support works differently. This is complicated, no one really 
> understands, professors are asked, and politicians add arguments. The 
> PP is heard, at least in Sweden, but not decisive (yet!)
> (SNIP)
Rome wasn't built in one day. Many battles will be lost until we gain 
enough weight, and many adverse decisions will be made that we will need 
to revert; the thing I believe is to be able to gain that weight ... 
then, things will become pretty interesting.
>> I don't know if you enjoy these examples, there are many more.
> Yes, I like that type of argument.
Thank you; the thing is that I use them together with the human rights 
argument, and I state that they are compatible; about being believed 
when I make such statement ... time is my judge.
> While I don't believe that politicians are really stupid, they are 
> amazingly willing to accept nonsense, as long as it fits their position.
Who said traditional politicians are stupid -at least not all of them 
.... about some of them ... well, forget about it-? What I say is that 
they are not trustable anymore, at least Spanish MPs. Nonsenses? 
Zapatero, Spanish Prime Minister, said that paying levies was an act of 
patriotism ... is that beaten by any other nonsense? If not, then here 
we have a winner ... the important thing is that almost nobody, apart 
from us and certain people like RMS, David Bravo, etc, counters such 
lies and nonsenses.

There is a dialog from Sin City, where the corrupt politician states the 
following: "/power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from 
lying. Lying big, and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with 
you. Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts 
ain't true, you've got e'm by the balls/"

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0002552/quotes

That's it: traditional politicians spread big lies, and as long as they 
count with media supporting them, covering their lies and silencing 
their oppositors, and creating a web of lies that traps almost everybody 
around. What I think we should do is to destroy that web -through civic 
means, of course- and uncover their lies; as you said, inform, inform, 
inform, until our vocal folds bleed and we get breathless. And then, 
continue informing people -if we become voiceless, we still can write ...-.
> During the debate in our parliament about the implementation of the 
> data retention directive an opposition member argued that Skype and 
> Hotmail are outside the scope anyway (so that only stupid terrorists 
> will be caught by this measure). But then someone of the government 
> coalition asked the minister to do his best to cover those "white 
> spots" as well - and that was it.
Maybe that was it because there is nobody asking the government daily 
about the issue. One of the most remembered feature of recent Spanish 
democracy was Aznar's "/Vayase, señor Gonzalez/" (i.e., "/Just leave, 
Mr. Gonzalez/", where /leave/ applies for resignation); that was a 
catchphrase well remembered by people, and it worked, between other 
factors, because Aznar tirelessly repeated it -later he wasn't keen to 
be criticized, when he became Prime Minister ... it often happens with 
former oppositors-.
> Another story, perhaps with a less obvious conclusion: the story goes 
> that criminals from the drugs scene converted to fake DVD trade: more 
> profitable and less likely to be caught. But isn't this good for 
> social health? Tough copyright enforcement will increase the number of 
> drug addicts again ...
There was a story -largely mocked on- about unauthorised (they are real, 
you can watch films from them; simply, they violate commercial author's 
rights) DVDs being more profitable than selling drugs; RMOs stopped 
using that crap to avoid getting more and more embarrassed.

How was it achieved? Informing, informing, informing, informing; and not 
being shy to face distortions.
> But I actually quoted the IPRED2 case because it shows that watertight 
> legal arguments simply are ignored by politicians. And human rights 
> arguments may suffer the same fate, I am afraid.
And non-legal arguments are also ignored. They only fear losing votes, 
because it means losing power, losing seats, losing money, losing 
everything; if they're really concerned about the risk of losing votes, 
maybe they'll listen -only maybe, as they may even be more afraid of the 
web of lies I commented before-.

Do you know another kind of code, apart from human rights, that also 
worked a lot, surprisingly, with /communists/? The Bible. Julio Anguita, 
who once studied to become a priest and who finally became a 
/communist/, usually quoted the Bible in his parliamentary speeches. His 
priestly manners helped him to achieve up to 22 seats in his party's 
historical peak in 1996.

My advice: forget traditional politicians, focus on people -actually, 
sovereigns and the one who would vote for pirate parties-. For me, 
traditional politicians are a lost cause, and if I ever become an MP/MEP 
.... well, I'd use what I learned from negotiation, however nobody in 
PIRATA expects quite much from traditional politicians. And from my 
experience, people uses to be concerned when aware of the threats 
against their human rights; of course, anyone can use the rhetoric tools 
of his wish ... we in PIRATA are going to keep using human rights as one 
of them -I didn't study to become a priest so I cannot do as Anguita did 
xD-.
> No, that is something else. Franco Frattini simply ignored ghe legal 
> argument. I referred to law professors who interpret human rights 
> provisions in a pirata-adverse manner. In particular you favourite 
> UNDR provision is easily interpreted that way.
You mean that it's easily *mis*interpreted that way.


                                                                                                 
Carlos Ayala
                                                                                                 
( Aiarakoa )

                                                                           
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman