[pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto

[Carlos Ayala Vargas]

Reinier Bakels wrote:
> It seems there is a total confusion about the purpose of a 
> "Manifesto". Sorry about that.
Maybe, though I don't know why, as I've several times brought to you the 
link of the Manifesto purposes -the /what/ thing-.

http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto#What

A /what/ corroborated by pirate parties representatives, namely, Samir, 
Ole, Helmut (Jens didn't oppose to this), Arkadiusz, Valentin (Florian 
didn't oppose to this), Amelia, Matthias, Andrew (Glenn didn't oppose to 
this), Anton, Roderick & me -Dmitriy & Enrique haven't participated 
enough in the process to know what their parties think of this-; and 
pirate parties representatives are who talk on behalf of their parties.

http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto#Who
> I have been informed (offline) that the purpose of the Manifesto is to 
> establish a word-wide identity of the concept ("brand") Pirate Party 
> as a political movement, e.g. for reference by national Pirate 
> Parties. In my (perhaps incorrect) perspective, the efforts to create 
> a common document merely were a service to national Pirate Parties, in 
> order to avoid a duplication of work. I have attended both PPI 
> meetings last year, in Berlin in January and in June in Uppsala, and I 
> did not get a different impression there.
I don't know how did you get such impression from Berlin Conference (I 
wasn't in Uppsala's); actually I only remember Wybo Wiersma -who 
nevertheless participated in the Pirate Manifesto task group in Berlin, 
together with Jan Huwald (Piraten Partei Deutschland) and Christian 
Engström (Piratpartiet), on saturday afternoon session- from Piraten 
Partij; probably you attended on saturday morning -maybe you were the 
one who explained Piraten Partij then-status, actually I don't remember it-.

Because if you attended too saturday afternoon session, you had to 
listen to the list of characteristics defined for /what/ the Pirate 
Manifesto was meant to be (check the above link); and if you didn't 
attend, I guess Wybo Wiersma -who by the way and during the first months 
following Berlin Conference was the most active PPI member concerning 
this issue- informed Piraten Partij about it; I say all this -except 
Wybo informing Piraten Partij, which is just a supposition- just 
sticking to provable facts.

And, finally, there is what pirate parties representatives have talked 
about during the Stage One sessions, again not in the way you talk 
about, but in the way of the above link. Thus, I truly don't what are 
you talking about.
> Furthermore, I gather that you are the WW coordinator for the PPI 
> manifesto, and Carlos is considered the coordinator for Europe. I 
> appreciate that if you consider a Manifesto a purpose in itself, as a 
> "project", it is frustrating if someone is as critical as I am. Sorry! 
> Otoh, if it would be merely a service, it is logical for a 
> representative of a national PP to consider whether such a Manifesto 
> is helpful or not.
First of all, as far as I know, you are not Piraten Partij 
representative, Samir is. Having said this, this is not about whether 
you are critical or not -anyone can be critical or supportive, given 
there is freedom of speech here-; this is about the purposes defined in 
Berlin and agreed by pirate parties representatives.
> If eventually a majority of national pirate parties would adopt this 
> style of Manifesto, we have a big problem: in my perspective then we 
> have to choose between *either* those principles *or* a pragmatic 
> political approach. The end effect could be a schism. I hope that you 
> appreciate the compelling logic of this line of thought - I do not 
> mean a threat.
Of course you don't mean a threat; to mean a threat, you should be 
talking on behalf of anyone, and however you're not a representative for 
any pirate party, not even for Piraten Partij -as far as I know-.
> Conceivably any international union of pirate parties may object the 
> use of the designation "Pirate Party" for unauthorised political 
> movements, not agreeing with the Manifesto. But then I'd like to 
> remind you that the designation "Pirate Party" itself is controversial.
Unless Sweden (Piratpartiet has 8.000 members for a 9-million 
inhabitants country) and Finland (900 members for a 5 million 
inhabitants country) are exceptions from a general rule, maybe the rest 
of pirate parties -including PIRATA- simply haven't reached critical 
mass, to make ourselves enough known to make the goodness of our stances 
prevail -and thus, rather than wondering what does fail in our stances 
or our brand, we should just work on growing (considering that, for such 
goal, having a strong, fine-working PPI with active PRs, IT and other 
groups would be largely helpful)-.

By the way,
> There are many activists who subscribe (more or less) to the PP cause, 
> who frown upon the name.
> In sum, it is primarily the political direction that matters, and the 
> "PP" designation is a means to an end, not a condicio sine qua non.
to know about the ==> PP <== cause, one should rather try here

http://www.epp-ed.eu/home/en/default.asp

rather than here

http://int.piratenpartei.de

as we are PPI, not PP.
> In my understanding, the PP movement emerged more or less as a joke 
> when the Swedish government established an "anti pirate bureau" - 
> which "obviously" called for the establishment of a "pirate bureau" - 
> the foundation for the eventual pirate party. While proponents argue 
> that the word "pirate" provokes a shock effect which is helpful for 
> promotion, others argue that this word inherently has a potemtially 
> counter-productive negative connotation: one would not establish a 
> "theft party" either. 
And (again) however, Piratpartiet does have 8.000 members in a 9 million 
inhabitants country, while Piraattipuolue does have 900 members in a 5 
million inhabitants country; maybe you should review such conclusions.

About the rest of Reinier's mail (about his political perspective and 
etc), well: he has already explained his viewpoints in former mails, and 
I have already explained what I think of those viewpoints, so I don't 
want to enlarge this already large mail.


                                                                                                      
Carlos Ayala
                                                                                                      
( Aiarakoa )

                                                                                 
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman

P.S.:
> IMHO, politics must achieve results, not promote philosophies.
As I once said, making actions without a backing philosophy seems to me 
the same as watching beheaded chickens running.