[pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto

[Reinier Bakels]

The answer is short. Yes, "natural law" is (commonly seen as) a questionable 
concept, and you just re-invented the reasons. Yet there is a need to name 
"non-utilitarian rights". Not everything is economics. The "auithors right" 
concept in its purest form implies that the author decides, "because he is 
entitled to", however detrimental that may be for social welfare. The famous 
phrase about copyright in the American constitution starts from the 
perspective of the interest of society.
reinier

Groeten, Grüße, Regards, Cordialement, Hälsningar, Ciao, Saygilar, 
Üdvözlettel, Pozdrowienia, Kumusta, Adios, Oan't sjen, Ave, Doei, Yassou, 
Yoroshiku, Slán, Vinarliga, Kær Kvedja
>>> REINIER B. BAKELS PhD LL.M. MSc
private: Johan Willem Frisostraat 149, 2713 CC Zoetermeer, The Netherlands 
telephone: +31 79 316 3126, GSM ("Handy") +31 6 4988 6490,  fax +31 79 316 
7221
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carlos Ayala Vargas" <aiarakoa at yahoo.es>
To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk" 
<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] purpose of manifesto


> Reinier Bakels wrote:
>> remember thgat copyright and "droit d'auteur" really are different 
>> things:
>> - copyright is utilitairan, for the benefit of society, see american 
>> constitution.
> It's anglo-saxon right, thus I'm not fully aware of which are its roots. 
> If you say it's utilitarian, may be, don't know.
>> - droit d'auteur is a "natural" right for the author, because he 
>> "deserves" it
> However I'm pretty sure about author's rights not being /natural/.
>
> /Natural/ is to expect Newton's apple falling over his head -if something 
> lacks of any base or subjection, gravity rules-. Author's rights were, 
> however, agreed -as you said in former mails-
>
> - if we aim for anglo-saxon roots, which is that law's name -as I said, 
> I'm not fully aware-? Queen Anne's decree?
> * also, the US Constitution -not extracted from a sacred oak, but 
> developed and signed by human beings-
> - if we aim for french roots, by the 1789 Declaration -neither extracted 
> from a sacred oak-
> - by 1948 UDHR
> - by WIPO Treaties
> - (in EU scope) by 2001/29/EC and related directives
> - (in Spanish scope) by Law 23/2006 which modified Royal Legislative 
> Decree 1/1996
>
> All laws and agreement made by human beings and, thus, changeable -at 
> least in term & scope- by human beings.
>
> Furthermore, equating human-made laws with natural law is in my opinion 
> plainly impossible, because if ever someone claims any law or principle to 
> be /natural/, how does that person know it?
>
> - if just because it always was that way, there is always the slavery 
> counterexample -now is customary law to forbid slavery, however a few 
> centuries ago it was the opposite thing, *because (in this case, 
> fortunately) some customs change*-
> - if just because one philosopher and/or lawyer thinks it's /natural/ well 
> ... opinions are just opinions
> - if that philosopher and/or lawyer /knows/ it's /natural/, where are the 
> scientific evidences? I mean, when I drop the apple, the apple falls due 
> to gravity, and you and me can test it as many times as we want to; how 
> would we /know/ that creating a cultural work /naturally/ gives the 
> author -according to the current legal framework- exclusive right to 
> reproduce it?
>
> I personally deny the existence of /natural/ laws (in legal context) due 
> to the former reasons, and recommend you to counter anyone who tells you 
> that author's rights are /natural/ rights -when actually (and specially)
>> while pirates may be inclined to prefer the former, remember that open 
>> source licences like gnu depend on the latter perspective
> I think RMS is not going to enjoy by hearing that you call GNU License an 
> /open source/ license.
>
>
> 
> Carlos Ayala
> 
> ( Aiarakoa )
>
> 
> Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman
>
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