[pp.int.general] 3. Re: One good, one bad (Jerry Weyer)

[Jerry Weyer]

On 3 nov. 09, at 21:40, erik ernst wrote:

> I wonder what your definition of democracy is and where you get the  
> silly idea, that the earth would stop spinning

I said problems, not Armageddon.

> , because free citizens refuse to sign a contract they do not  
> understand.

Doesn't mean it's bad. We don't understand 90% of the regulation of  
the EU, nor of our own national parliaments.

>
>  I share Vaclav Klaus´ enthusiasm of the EU project

If you mean the whole project of the EU than that's a very sad  
opinion! Also I doubt very much that Mr. Klaus has any problems with  
the way treaty itself rather than personal/national considerations.

> , and Im slightly worried about the enthusiasm of the word  
> "democracy". The concept of democracy is used to justify just about  
> anything its humanly possible to concieve, but the actual meaning  
> is: Rule by the majority of the people". If we are to claim that the  
> Eu is an democratic institustion, is it then too much to ask, that  
> we actually act accordingly? Agreeing to this new contract, without  
> asking the citizens of EU, is not an act in defense of democracy,  
> but quite the opposite.

As I said, the procedure can be more democratic. But we shouldn't  
forget that the people signing are still elected! We should worry more  
about people voting for the same people over and over again. With the  
new treaty the EU Parliament plays a bigger role making the procedure  
more democratic. Even if you might not like it, it's practically  
impossible, not even desirable that "we the people" are asked about  
everything. I don't see how to organize the EU other than in a  
democracy.

>
> Now, I dont believe in democracy at all to begin with, and that  
> obviously  puts me well of the partys line of thought, so perhaps  
> its just time to migrate to the US PP, where they have a simple  
> constitution even my 12 year old daughter understands.

The US constitution allows for death penalty among other things. I  
don't think it's really a good model.

>
> "We the people..."