[pp.int.general] Andrew Failing, AGAIN

Fri Oct 8 20:21:38 CEST 2010

Seems to me that some people are trying to form a top-down
organization, on a bottom-up body.

If something is to be formed at all, an organization that better
resembles whats going on is needed.

I'm having a BBQ on Saturday in Södertälje, Sweden, you are all invited.

/Erik

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Brendan Molloy
<brendanmolloy at pirateparty.org.au> wrote:
> Judging by what I've read and my experience of watching PPI evolve,
> perhaps this is more of a case of 'biting off more than can be chewed'
> than incompetence. I'd imagine organising an international
> organisation with very little funds and initially no clear goal to be
> a slow and difficult process.
>
> So yes, while I understand the criticisms by Andrew, perhaps instead
> of simply laying blame upon the board for inaction or incompetence, an
> open discussion with the board about the problems they are facing with
> development of PPI and what we can do to help is in order.
>
> If after these discussions no clear resolution can be found, maybe we
> consider restructuring PPI to better suit the workload so that a more
> rigid delegation of tasks takes place and responsibilities are clearly
> defined.
>
> However, on the note of statutes, that was a massive screw up without
> a doubt, but it happens and can be resolved in the future. What is
> important is remembering that what will make PPI succeed is not the
> board but the members.
>
>
> On 6 October 2010 10:57, Rodrigo Pereira <rodrigo2kpereira at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree kenneth,
>>
>> I think a positive way is organize the the next conference and learn by
>> errors of PPI. I think Andrew have their reasons and this will be considered
>> in the next conference, I hope.  I have the intention to be present in the
>> next conference despite the fact of pirate party of Brazil is passing by the
>> same obstacles like bureaucracy and difficult to do things clear. I have
>> many ideas about PPI that I plan expose on the next conference.
>>
>> Now, I propose that PPI use your statutes-based banking account to raise
>> funds to the next conference. This don't need to be passed by 3 ou 5 IRC
>> meetings, this is a permanent work. I don't have news about PPI's money, Is
>> ZERO? It is? No problem, we can start raise funds now. PPI is silent in many
>> points and I can't stand this.
>>
>> So PPI board, I beg, start raise funds and give the chance for the next
>> conference whatever the place. Help to organize the next conference.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Rodrigo Pereira
>> Brazil
>>
>> 2010/10/5 Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com>
>>>
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>>> On 10/5/2010 5:53 PM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:
>>> > Andrew,
>>> >
>>> >     Maybe it's my current headache, however, this is the third time in
>>> > few days that I wanted to tell you something, and finally here we goes.
>>> >
>>> >     Can you try to build instead of destroy? Are you always like this?
>>>
>>> You see the PPI, I helped build it (I was it's first head)
>>> You see the PPUS ,I helped build that (also it's first 'head' when it
>>> was established formally, rather than as just a group of people)
>>>
>>> >
>>> >     As you can see, I am getting rid of your attitude, maybe you can be
>>> > right in some things, but you fail as a whole.
>>> >
>>> >      I'm not at the PPI board at all, but as a member of this list, it's
>>> > quite obvious that you're not positively contributing to anything. Can I
>>> > ask you something? is there any other pirate in the US who is a kind
>>> > person so he/she can replace you in this list?
>>> >
>>> >     If you have something to purpose, do it. If you have any issue,
>>> > politely ask for help/fix. But if you only want to troll, please, shout
>>> > up.
>>> >
>>> I have issues. I have issues with how PPI is run. and I did make a
>>> proposal. I proposed, 10 days ago, that the board act like big boys, and
>>> stand behind their actions, and honestly judge themselves, as they would
>>> judge others.
>>>
>>> Frankly, if you don't like people being called out for their actions,
>>> and publicly shamed for them (because there's no other way, it seems, to
>>> replace the board this side of April, except by shaming them with their
>>> (in)actions into resigning) then you might want to take your toys, and
>>> go home. Or is it ok for you to do that to established politicians, but
>>> not to those that CLAIM to support the same things.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> (and there's other US pirates on here, but none have the years of
>>> experience of dealing with this list and the people on it, as I have,
>>> nor am I alone in my dissatisfaction)
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Kenneth
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Al 05/10/10 23:33, En/na Andrew Norton ha escrit:
>>> >> PPI Incompetence shines through again.
>>> >>
>>> >> - From todays meeting
>>> >> http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board_Minutes_2010-10-05
>>> >> "PP-US: we are certain that we did not got any confimation from USPP
>>> >> after the conference regarding their PPI Membership. They are more than
>>> >> welcome to submit an application for Membership for the next
>>> >> conference,
>>> >> though. "
>>> >>
>>> >> They are certain. They're so certain, they've not asked us for any kind
>>> >> of information on it. Not a single 'well, how and when did you submit
>>> >> it?' - kinda hard to be certain. For all they know, it was accidentally
>>> >> misfiled as spam and deleted.
>>> >>
>>> >> What we have again is the current PPI board trying to gloss over their
>>> >> failings in basic activities. after a 30 second check of their inbox,
>>> >> they're *certain* - probably the same certain, that Gregory was that
>>> >> we'd have the statutes before the conference (he's got a great track
>>> >> record)
>>> >>
>>> >> Let's also remind ourselves of our esteemed leader's goals for 2010 if
>>> >> elected.
>>> >> Gregory
>>> >>
>>> >> (http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Gregory_Engels.2C_Germany)
>>> >> "The goal is to strengthen and build support for the international
>>> >> pirate movement - including giving kick-start to new pirate parties,
>>> >> and
>>> >> preparing a big international pirate conference. On the personal and
>>> >> more local side - to ensure that the Pirate Party of Hesse participates
>>> >> in the "foreigners elections" in November."
>>> >>
>>> >> Building support for hte international pirate movement. Anyone feel
>>> >> supported?
>>> >> Kick start to new parties - can't say much there.
>>> >> Preparing a big international conference - Well, his goal for 2010 here
>>> >> is completely busted. Not only is the next one now NOT in 2010, but he
>>> >> wants someone else to organise it.
>>> >> The Hesse election bit - well, this one pretty much violates the
>>> >> statutes he himself wrote.
>>> >> BOARD
>>> >> XII. Board
>>> >> (1) Pirate Parties International is managed by the Board, the executive
>>> >> organ. Its Members shall consider the interests of the Pirate
>>> >> Movement as a whole and shall neither consider themselves, nor be
>>> >> considered, as representing any particular Member or non-member
>>> >> Organization or Region.
>>> >>
>>> >> When he can't even run for the job in accordance with the rules for the
>>> >> job he wrote, it's a clear sign of incompetence.
>>> >>
>>> >> Jerry, our other co-president made the following campaign pledge
>>> >>
>>> >> (http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Jerry_Weyer.2C_Luxembourg)
>>> >> "Establish Pirate Party in Luxembourg, provide the PPI with a legal
>>> >> basis (statutes), increase international cooperation between pirate
>>> >> parties (with the help of PPI)"
>>> >>
>>> >> 3 items. The first ALSO falls foul of the statutes, mentioned in the
>>> >> second (the statutes which also have a significant lacking, as I'll
>>> >> mention again, there is no means to remove a board member for sheer
>>> >> incompetence - oversight, or deliberate, you judge), and the 3rd item
>>> >> he
>>> >> has also failed miserably at.
>>> >>
>>> >> 10 days ago, I wrote an email, saying that the board needed to either
>>> >> get their backsides in gear and DO THEIR JOBS, or resign. There is just
>>> >> under 2 weeks left. So far, nothing has changed. It's still 'looking
>>> >> for
>>> >> someone else to do xyz' and 30-second certainties.
>>> >>
>>> >> One of the reasons the Pirate Party started, is because people were
>>> >> tired of politicians saying, and promising something, then not doing it
>>> >> or stabbing us in the back. Right now, that's EXACTLY the kind of
>>> >> people
>>> >> we have running the PPI. PPI as a concept is too important to leave to
>>> >> these incompetents, bumbling around like a political Inspector
>>> >> Clouseau.
>>> >> Right now, their pride, and their arrogance is hurting us all. If you
>>> >> can't handle the position (and you, collectively, have shown you can't)
>>> >> then step down, and let someone who can do so. No-one would think any
>>> >> less of you because of it. However, when you make a shoddy product, are
>>> >> called on it, and keep on making a shoddy product, then people DO think
>>> >> less of you.
>>> >>
>>> > ____________________________________________________
>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ____________________________________________________
>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>> - --
>>> Andrew Norton
>>> http://ktetch.blogspot.com
>>> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Brendan Molloy
> Pirate Party Australia
>
> M: +61 434 069 776
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>