[pp.int.general] Liquid democracy information?

[Pirat@LennStar.de]

Yes, I have seen such Kings having more votes than all the other voters
together. Mostly because of 2 or 3 "lesser kings" delegating to big one.
In my eyes thats not democracy.

But whatever, this list is not for discussing LQFB and especially not
for flame wars, right?

LennStar

Am 28.11.2011 16:51, schrieb Boris Turovskiy:
> Well carlo, you just demonstrated wonderfully the typical response of a
> Liquid Feedback adept to even the slightest criticism... Thanks for that;)
> 
> But to answer the factual points (and I have a nagging suspicion that
> our positions are not that far from each other, despite the overt
> animosity):
> 
>> It empowered Berlin to collectively create a huge manifesto without
>> meeting in general assembly each week-end.
> I do not deny that LQFB can be an extremely useful tool to develop a
> party program. The point is that to write a party manifesto which is
> ready to be voted upon at a general assembly, you don't really need the
> Liquid part, you don't need the entire voting module, you don't need
> mandatory real name registration, you don't need to store the entire
> voting history for ages, but you do need a discussion platform (as LQFB
> doesn't provide one it was established to provide links to a discussion
> pad for each initiative). Some features of LQFB, like the
> amendments/opinions system, do indeed help to work out a proposal of
> acceptable quality, but they are not the features which are most often
> cited as the great strengths of Liquid Feedback (Liquid Democracy,
> transparency, etc.) I also don't have the impression that LQFB would
> have produced such a torrent of criticism if its area of application had
> been defined as "collaborative development of proposals" from the
> beginning instead of "the democratic mega-weapon", "a new age in party
> democracy" or "a tool to make final decisions on political topics".
> 
>> As far as I can tell, if you don't have "delegation kings" your liquid
>> democracy is broken. It is human nature to have some popular people that
>> get some 30.. 50.. delegations. It's still ridiculous numbers compared
>> to the voting power of a delegate in traditional parties.
> Well, if that's your opinion on "human nature" then why not just scrap
> the whole liquid democracy idea and revert to a classical party
> structure where the top brass make the decisions? Besides, by
> introducing chain delegations you create delegation kings who may well
> have 100 votes while receiving only a handful of delegations, as each of
> those delegations brings with it a rat's tail of lower-level delegated
> votes...
> By the way, the voting power of the delegation kings is in fact
> ridiculously high compared to a delegate in a classical party, as the
> point is not how many people a single delegate represents but how much
> influence a single person achieves. A classical delegate my stand for
> 1000 regular party members but in an assembly of 500 delegates he won't
> be able to push through any decisions by himself. A delegation king in
> Liquid Feedback may very well be able to sway any voting result with his
> decision alone.
> 
> Best regards,
> Boris
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