[pp.int.general] R: R: PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization

Sat Dec 22 22:54:00 CET 2012

Carlito said that some 11 people are still in control
of the PP-IT. I wonder how that is mathematically possible
if we have 350 people registered in Liquid Feedback and
50-70 participating in most votes. How are the 11 people
controlling everything? By delegation? Well, then some
300 people are consciously delegating them.. it's an act
of representative democracy.. but no, wait, it's different,
there are at least 6 new faces among the leading 11 that
appeared since you had to leave the PP-IT.. how does that
work out with your Evil Paranoia Control theory?

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 08:28:21PM +0100, Carlito wrote:
> Can you confirm this numbers provided by lilo in one of the last issues
> voted in the "Democratic" Permanent Assembly of the PP IT?
> Yes: 38 (79%) . Abstention: 16 . No: 10 (21%) . Approved

This was an urgent procedure.. it's above average that
roughly 20% either directly or by delegation participated
in this vote. Other pirate parties have boards of 5 or 7
people taking these decisions, so you could say 1% of the
respective party picked the choice. Our degree of participatory
democracy is clearly scoring higher, no suprise PP-DE is
eyeing Permanent Assembly models.

> If yes, the question is: 
> Can you consider the Italian Pirate Party a democratic structure if 16
> people against 15 can decide the expulsion of a member without bringing any
> evidence of "frauds"?

These days it would be much easier to kick you out as back
then. We now have elected aî€€Council of Arbitration so all it
takes is ten people to point them to the articles and interviews
you gave in the intent and effect of damaging the PP-IT. That's
against the statutes and sufficient for expulsion. No need to
even discuss your fraudulent certifications.