[pp.int.general] European citizens' Initiative - ID requirement & data retention

P. Maechler valio at visionsinteractive.ch
Sat Jan 7 15:35:32 CET 2012


btw (just that I'm not getting criticized for that): Richard Stallman  
was saying more or less the same as Doctorrow did in that speech since  
years; but it was probably less condensed (instead on a better  
philosophical base) and most people were less likely inclined to agree  
that society is likely developing to these questions.


Zitat von Jerry Weyer <jerry.weyer at piratepartei.lu>:

> Hi Pat,
> While I like your "global" approach and broader vision of such topics and
> agree that one should be cautious of certain developments, I am not seeing
> a big risk at the moment to be interested in the ECI. The EU has a big
> problem with democracy and citizens' participation and I am inclined to
> support and use every possible way I get to influence EU politics.
> Perhaps you're too pessimistic and I'm too optimistic ;) We'll see, at
> least I hope that this discussing interested some people to look up what
> their government plans with ECI and act accordingly. :)
> Kind regards,
> Jerry
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio  
> <pirate at valio.ch>wrote:
>> I'm not saying something like the ECI can't be useful; indeed I say
>> many good uses for the cause of democracy. I'm just very cautious with
>> it as it is currently setup, because the safeguards are not closely to
>> what I would consider secure enough and the possible implications of
>> intended malice manipulation can be extremely severe; just as it is
>> with electronic voting.
>> I know that there never can't be 100% certainty in this world (if you
>> omit mathematical idealized constructs).
>> I'm cautious because we're at the beginning of the digital revolution;
>> a revolution where today no one - really no one - can even grasp where
>> we might end up in 100 years. If we are not be cautious enough of
>> steps with possibly severe implications, we might miss the point where
>> it was probably still possible to turn things for the better (probably
>> we already did) and safe the ideals & achievements of the French
>> Revolution. If things go really awry, there might be simply no "second
>> French Revolution", after which individuals can act on an autonomous
>> level, but instead just dictatorship where the few rule over the many
>> without their consent (probably not on worldwide level, but on
>> sub-levels; but that doesn't really matter). If you don't see that you
>> probably have not yet understood what Cory Doctorrow was saying in his
>> speech "The Coming War on General Purpose Computation". The
>> possibility for a prosperous, free society scale with technological
>> improvement, but so do the risks for a society that is ruled by
>> dictatorship for egoistic purposes, because the dependency of
>> technology by and the means for control over individuals scale as
>> well.
>> -pat
>> ____________________________________________________
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> --
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> jerry.weyer at piratepartei.lu
> +352 661 86 04 01

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