[pp.int.general] Other (no sot good) reaction to MU joint complaint campaign

Sun Jan 29 16:12:39 CET 2012

Again, I personally am for everything you do, and so is a large part of
PPDE, I am sure. I am trying to explain why some parts are against it, and
why it is not as big of a deal over here. Also, I don't think MU and MV had
that many German customers, most users here use Rapidshare (or Dropbox)
afaik, companies that are more careful not to violate US law.

I agree that 9 days is very very slow to come to a decision.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> wrote:

>  Then you have a huge trouble in decision-making... 9 days so far in a hot
> topic related to your ideology...
>
> BTW, our lawyers have prepared a strategy through 2 complaints (in Spain,
> that can be replicated in all EU countries + most Latin American countries):
>
> - One, leaded by us, about personal data. This is probably going to be won
> and will have little or no effect with US authorities, but will be a moral
> victory. We are gonna push this one from Pirates de Catalunya.
> - Another one, facilitated by us but not made by us, where  MU customers
> will be able to get an economic compensation. I can't tell you more in an
> open list, but it's quite easy that MU customers will have an economic
> compensation for unjustified damage. Hot news, we're going to use copyright
> enforcement laws against them.
>
>
> Our lawyers are not amateur guys but the TOP-10 (all them) of Spain's
> Internet Rights and anti-RIAA lawyers. We have specialists in Spanish and
> European privacy laws + lawyers working in Spanish Congress specialized in
> European laws + top consumer organization's lawyers + at least 10 lawyers
> from #15M/#SpanishRevolution from Barcelona, preparing "legal defense kits"
> for the affected users.
>
> I'd love to see what your voters think about you, abandoning 4M German
> citizen's privacy and consumer's rights.
>
> Are you against case #1? and about customer rights in case #2?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
> Al 29/01/12 15:49, En/na Justus Römeth ha escrit:
>
> Moin Kenneth
>
>  We are (or rather our leadership is) slow, so actually there is nothing
> decided yet.
>
>  IMO all you write is true, but smaller PPs can win much more than PPDE
> in this case, we already have our name out there. Anyways, it's not like we
> actually oppose you, is it? Afaik nobody official from PPDE has put forward
> an opinion to the matter, everything else were just individual opinions.
>
>  Having said that, the fact that the US is more of a police state than we
> would like, and that it is unlikely anybody is gonna get his data back is a
> shame, but probably nothing a court ruling in Europe will change. And I
> doubt we could win a case in the US (if we were to try that we should get
> the EFF on board, however).
>
> Kind regards
>
>  -J
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>wrote:
>
>>  PP-DE is acting SHAMEFULLY in this case.
>>
>> What about the personal data of people using MU? didn't you had a
>> principle about defending privacy?
>>
>> Shame.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Al 29/01/12 15:37, En/na Choms ha escrit:
>>
>> Presumption of innocence? Oh, wait, that doesn't exists on the US... if
>> so, imho, you have to wait for a trial before condemn someone... but who
>> cares about justice? :)
>>
>> 2012/1/29 Christian Hufgard <pp at christian-hufgard.de>
>>
>>> On 29.01.2012 11:29, Josep Sànchez wrote:
>>> >>  You are also allowed to lose your money by investing in criminal
>>> >> stock companies.
>>> >
>>> > That's not the actual situation. In my country when anybody does any
>>> > action it is responsible for the collateral damages it might cause, and
>>> > it's even more serious if they could have avoided or previewed them and
>>> > didn't do it. It doesn't matter if its an individual, a government
>>> > officer or a policeman.
>>> > Are laws different in your country and in the USA?
>>>
>>>  Don't know about the US, but in germany police in nearly never made
>>> responsible for whatever they do. We had even our parties server raided
>>> a couple of days before an election without any consequences...
>>>
>>> > MU was not a "criminal company" *until* Virginia State authorities told
>>> > the Feds to seize it.
>>>
>>>  Of course they were, otherwise the hadn't been raided. (A judge or a
>>> jury still might decide something different)
>>>
>>> > People could hire their services until that moment
>>> > as they could do with any other company in the net. Financial services,
>>> > ISP's and even US tax authorities were operating normally with MU. Are
>>> > they also criminals?.
>>>
>>>  What for was Al Capone sent to Alcatraz? Murder or not paying his taxes?
>>>
>>>
>>> >> Well, that's your point of view. I don't think the Feds or Virginia
>>> >> State are responsible to keep MU running. And if the court determines
>>> >> the raid was illegal, they gonna have to pay a pretty huge amount of
>>> >> money to Kim and his fellows.
>>> >
>>> > First was a matter of money, now of who has to run the service, what
>>> > next? :)
>>>
>>>  Finally it's the matter of reason. If the law in the US does not force
>>> the Feds to keep a service online they were told to shut down, why
>>> should they do so?
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>  ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
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