[pp.int.general] Towards a secure eDemocracy platform based on Web service standards

[Marko Mitrovic]

You abstain by: 1) not voting, or better 2) making your ballot void by
drawing something like that or picking multiple options :)

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de> wrote:

> Apart from the last paragraph it basically works the same in Germany as in
> the UK (afaik). You get more than one ballot because usually you vote for a
> candidate and for a list of candidates put forward by parties at the same
> time for the general election and many state elections (Saarland does not
> do it, but that is the exception afaik), and for municipal elections you
> often have more than one council to vote for, but per thing you vote on you
> get one ballot with a list of all the options you can vote on.
> I don't know if you are allowed to make your cross oustide of the polling
> booth, but I have never seen anybody do that.
>
> What clearly is missing in Germany is an 'I abstain' option, however.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Jack Allnutt <
> j.allnutt at pirateparty.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> The idea of multiple ballot papers seems like a really crazy way of
>> doing things, not just for privacy and persuasive reasons (and
>> economic ones for small parties, especially if the party is
>> responsible for printing the ballot papers itself(!)) but also for
>> ecological reasons.
>>
>> In the UK, each elector is issued one ballot paper by the presiding
>> officer which lists all of the candidates (or parties in elections
>> that use a list system, like the European Parliament elections or the
>> proposed elections to our upper chamber).
>>
>> This way, the secrecy of the ballot is maintained, as there's no way
>> to guess which candidate/party the vote is for until it is on the
>> table being counted with the rest of them.
>>
>> Having said that, in the UK each ballot paper has a serial number
>> printed on the reverse, which is written down next to the elector's
>> number when they are issued so that in the case of serious fraud, an
>> election court can order that voters can be identified. This is a
>> little scary, but AFAIK it's not been used in a very, very long time
>> (if ever) and there are measures in place to mitigate potential
>> hazards. For instance, it's a criminal offence to try
>> photograph/record ballot papers at a count and all ballot papers must
>> face up at all times when being counted (except where there's a
>> delayed count as in the European Elections. When this happens, the
>> verification part is done with every paper facing downwards and then
>> the subsequent count a few days later is done face-up so that never
>> are both sides of the ballot paper shown). Ballot papers which
>> identify the voter are also not counted towards the final tally.
>>
>>
>> -- Jack
>>
>>
>> On 14 July 2012 15:24, MRE <muriel at pirata.cat> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > In Spain you're not forced to go into the polling booth... although it
>> > seems like it would be a good idea.
>> >
>> > In fact, most people don't use it and they just take a single ballot
>> > and put in the envelope for everyone to see so in many cases, although
>> > who's voted what it's not in a public database, it may not be secret
>> > unless you really want to.
>> >
>> > Moreover, since large parties have the money to send advertising to
>> > all voters, they send it together with their ballot papers and
>> > envelope, so that many people does that at home and they don't even
>> > have to browse through less known parties' ballot papers.
>> >
>> > If they do it this way they can be forced by their husbands or
>> > families to vote whatever and no one would know because on the polling
>> > station they just have to put the envelope inside the ballot box.
>> > The same situation may happen when voting by snail mail, which is also
>> > another possibility for anyone in Spain.
>> >
>> > It seems to me that we're being much more strict with electronic
>> > voting than we're really being with standard paper voting. Probably we
>> > should change the paper voting law as well in some countries to be
>> > more strict about all this and enforce democratic principles.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> >         Muriel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/7/14 Maxime Rouquet <maxime.rouquet at partipirate.org>:
>> >> On 07/14/2012 03:31 PM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:
>> >>> What happens in districts with only a bunch of voters? If there's 50
>> >>> voters in a tiny village, do you really think that the mafia-major of
>> >>> the village will not notice that you didn't stick to what he wanted?
>> >>> it's fucking easy, the one entering a privacy cabinet to hide what's
>> his
>> >>> vote, that's the one who didn't voted what he wanted.
>> >>
>> >> I do not not for the rest of the world, but in France, it is mandatory
>> >> to get inside the polling booth, and if you take ballot papers you have
>> >> to take papers for at least two different people/lists.
>> >>
>> >> If you show what paper you put in the envelope, then the chairman of
>> the
>> >> poll has to _refuse_ your envelope.
>> >>
>> >> Therefore, the only possible way of knowing for sure what a given
>> person
>> >> has voted would be that everybody vote exactly the same.
>> >> ____________________________________________________
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>
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