[pp.int.general] PP-Leaders list update reminder

[Anouk Neeteson]

I understand your point of view Antonio, but even in your ideal world
there are narcissists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism and
other (criminal/destructive) that bring in the end the worst out of
the people. I state that (lots of) power corrupts. Full stop. Read
George Orwell's Animal farm as a parable. We HAVE to protect us from
our own 'dark' nature. Sorry to be the party pooper here :(

On 21 July 2012 16:02, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not for immediate realisation ;) ... the fact that there would be no
> additional advantage to be gained in siphoning off some of that
> power/influence for ones own use.
>
> Consider a world where ones survival would not be threatened... would one
> need extra resources to defend oneself better than the neighbour? What would
> the power/influence be useful for, then?
>
> And of course, trust can be all but blind... before you have a margin to be
> able to knowingly trust others... you have to educate yourself. If you do
> not trust yourself and your ability to detect misbehaviour... you do not
> have any margin to trust anybody.
>
> Too many see horizontal assemblies merely as a way to have the right to
> stick their nose in everything... believing that is the way not to be
> fooled. The plea for absolute transparency is another such a thing.
> Transparency does not benefit the blind ;) it benefits the strong that can
> see opposition from afar.
>
> Confidence, knowledge, wisdom... that benefits even the blind.
>
>
> Just a few quicki cents ;) .
>
> Antonio.
>
>> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:47:56 +0200
>> From: jakobsheep at gmail.com
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-Leaders list update reminder
>>
>> @antonio,, quote:"Total transparence = total lack of trust."
>> Give me 1 good reason why I should trust blindly anyone at a position
>> of power and/or influence?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 July 2012 13:17, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > What does not make sense is the fact that the list has been set up and
>> > operated under a known set of restrictions, being a closed list being
>> > one of
>> > them. All that has been said assumed those restrictions would apply, and
>> > perhaps things that would not have been mentioned under other conditions
>> > have been disclosed there.
>> >
>> > You can not change those conditions now and make everything public.
>> >
>> > Not without barring everyone from trusting you again with any kind of
>> > information that should not go public before the one providing it
>> > decides
>> > so.
>> >
>> > Imagine how difficult it would become for journalists if nobody trusted
>> > off-the-record and embargo to be respected... and abide by what is
>> > necessary.
>> >
>> >
>> > You do not seem to understand it is at all impossible to have short, mid
>> > and
>> > long term strategies if you can not conceal anything from your opponents
>> > and
>> > adversaries... then all you can do is day to day improvising at the
>> > level
>> > the least intelligent of your allies can understand.
>> >
>> > Very poor strategy.
>> >
>> >
>> > Without trusting each other, in the sense that you do not need to know
>> > everything to be sure the other is acting to the best of his ability to
>> > further the common goal, we will get nowhere.
>> >
>> > Distrust will keep ruining every effort.
>> >
>> > Total transparence = total lack of trust.
>> >
>> >
>> > And even with the total transparence, achieving anything becomes really
>> > impossible, under the present circumstances.
>> >
>> >
>> > Antonio.
>> > PP-ES
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:54:51 +0200
>> >> From: jakobsheep at gmail.com
>> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP-Leaders list update reminder
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Good thinking Markus, I agree. And for the protection of their
>> >> informel conversations before "publishing" they still have their
>> >> private communications like E-mail to guarantee free thinking WITHOUT
>> >> restrictions and no criticism during the formation of an unique free
>> >> opinion !
>> >> So we could have and transparency and guaranteed privacy at the same
>> >> time.
>> >> Does this make sense?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> (in the forming of one's opinion
>> >> On 21 July 2012 08:19, Markus Drenger
>> >> <markus.drenger at piratenpartei-hessen.de> wrote:
>> >> >> [..]
>> >> >> It is used for the
>> >> >> delivering of important information only [..]
>> >> >> and not for discussions.
>> >> >> well as to enable PPI members to discuss sensible matters.
>> >> >
>> >> > discussion or no discussion, that's the question ;)
>> >> >
>> >> > if this list is full of important information, without spam or other
>> >> > troll threads, why not make this list world-readable?
>> >> > It would be a perfect source of information within ppi.
>> >> >
>> >> > Greetings,
>> >> > Markus
>> >> >
>> >> > ____________________________________________________
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>> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________
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>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>> >
>> ____________________________________________________
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>
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