[pp.int.general] PPI board meeting minutes and some updates about the conference.
Mozart
mozart.palmer at pirateparty.org.au
Sun Mar 4 16:04:11 CET 2012
I suppose all Spanish members could be suspended indefinitely until
they get themselves sorted out, and stop bickering.
On 05/03/2012, at 2:00 AM, Choms wrote:
> imho, neither of all spanish territory pirate parties should have
> vote, even less after this deplorable spectacle where they all
> should be ashamed.
>
>
> 2012/3/4 Mozart <mozart.palmer at pirateparty.org.au>
> I like this suggestion:
>
> "I think one vote per country has worked quite well for PPI. In
> order to accomodate the situation in Spain I would suggest someone
> whom it is important to drafts an amendment of the PPI statutes that
> allows regional parties in exceptional circumstances to become
> ordinary members (maybe with only half a vote?) after the GA votes
> in favor of admitting that party as an ordinary member."
>
> But would say they should be given full vote when admitted. The
> situation in Spain does not seem to be working out at the moment, so
> a Pirate Confederation there is unlikely. They just don't seem to
> agree. And for now, PPES holds the Spanish vote I believe, even
> though PPCAT is a reportedly much larger party.
>
> Regards,
> Mozart.
>
> On 05/03/2012, at 12:19 AM, Justus Römeth wrote:
>
>> Hola Isabela, hola rest of Galician parties
>>
>> While I understand the Galician/Catalonian position on this, and
>> that circumventing the 1 voter per country makes totally sense for
>> you, it just does not make sense from a German point of view:
>> - Some local parties in Germany have more members than many
>> national parties in other countries, going by member count alone is
>> not a good starting point.
>> - It is unlikely to happen in the near future, but if there is a
>> rift within PPDE towards our position to PPI regional parties could
>> start to ask for votes, too. Unless the other parties grow
>> exceptionally by then this would 'allow' PPDE to 'swamp' PPI with
>> regional/local parties if we institutionalize what you propose,
>> bringing the rift within PPDE to PPI.
>> - Even more problematic, an institutionalization of allowing
>> regional parties into PPI could allow PPDE to effectively take over
>> PPI if it would wish so. Not something I particularly would like to
>> happen.
>>
>> So where does that leave us? The PPI rule of one country/one vote
>> is obviously flawed when it comes to entities where it is unclear
>> whether they are countries in our sense or not (Kosovo, Northern
>> Cyprus, Flanders, Wallonia, and also Scotland are obvious
>> examples). If you say that Catalonia and Galicia should get their
>> own vote in PPI, why should Bavaria or Frisia not get one? But if
>> they get one, why shouldn't Northern Frisia, the Sorbs, or
>> Amsterdam (all entities that see themselves as somewhat different
>> than the rest of their country), or Limburg and Lower Saxony (who
>> see themselves as deserving the same rights as Bavaria and
>> Friesland, since they are on the same political level within their
>> country)?
>>
>> I personally am not a big fan of the organization of politics with
>> the concept of nations (I am a German, but I don't quite understand
>> why I should feel closer to someone in Munich compared to someone
>> in Vienna, Berne, Luxembourg, Eupen, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague
>> or Wroclaw). But I accept that this ambiguous concept is accepted
>> by the vast majority of other people, that today's politics deal
>> with this concept, that it is important to a lot of people, and
>> that I won't be able to fundamentally change it.
>>
>> I think one vote per country has worked quite well for PPI. In
>> order to accomodate the situation in Spain I would suggest someone
>> whom it is important to drafts an amendment of the PPI statutes
>> that allows regional parties in exceptional circumstances to become
>> ordinary members (maybe with only half a vote?) after the GA votes
>> in favor of admitting that party as an ordinary member. (Maybe you
>> could include non-opposition by the 'affected' national party,
>> too). There is no guarantee that such an amendment would pass,
>> however. This would then allow the members of PPI to decide on a
>> possible Kosovarian PP when there is one, and not force them to
>> make such a decision now.
>>
>> The more fundamental question is obviously whether there is a lot
>> of use in having this discussion at all. Is an ordinary membership
>> in PPI that important to PP-CAT and PP-GAL, keeping PPI's tasks and
>> limitations in mind? Do PP-CAT and PP-GAL really disagree with PPES
>> so much as far as PPI is concerned? Shouldn't this discussion
>> instead focus on how we set up PPEU concerning national minorities
>> (or at all), or how PPES could be reformed that it is not seen as
>> such a big problem for the members of PP-CAT and PP-GAL?
>>
>> -J
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Kenneth Peiruza
>> <kenneth at pirata.cat> wrote:
>> Hi Isabel,
>>
>> It would be great to see some Galician Pirates in the forthcoming
>> GA. Please think about it! There's going to be 6 PP-ES delegates
>> and 4 PP-CAT delegates there, so, we can have a nice time with a
>> lot of Pilsen beer :)
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kenneth
>>
>>
>> On 04/03/12 10:59, Isabel Fernández wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Justus,
>>>
>>> We don't think PPI's job regulate between pirates parties either.
>>> That's
>>> why we said we'll declare nothing of the sort.
>>>
>>> Our suggestion was based on the premise 'one legal territorial
>>> pirate
>>> party - one vote' that we think it's a more fair than the actual
>>> situation. We think PPI could give it some thought to this issue.
>>>
>>> We'd love to send a delegate to the GA, but rumours are saing that
>>> we'll
>>> face elections next autumn at Galician Parlament and still there's
>>> a lot
>>> work to do... we're not sure we can attend to Prague. Generally
>>> rumours
>>> on this subject turn out to be true at the end. Maybe next time we
>>> are
>>> able to send Galician Delegation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Isabel Fernandez.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/03/12 10:51, Justus Römeth wrote:
>>>> Thank you Isabel (and the rest of PP-GAL),
>>>>
>>>> I don't think PPI's job is to regulate between individual pirate
>>>> parties,
>>>> but rather to keep the movement growing, by providing
>>>> infrastructure and a
>>>> place to meet for pirates who's country does not have a PP, and
>>>> by helping
>>>> them through the early stages of forming a party. Therefore I
>>>> don't think a
>>>> model that would give PPDE ~20 times as much voting power as the
>>>> next
>>>> biggest party (PPSE is still not a member) would be appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> That is not to say that the current model of PPI concerning the
>>>> situation
>>>> in Spain is optimal. It is not. I think your proposed solution
>>>> would make
>>>> sense for something like PPEU, or a PPI with a much broadened
>>>> scope (as
>>>> well as institutions like the EP, but that is a different
>>>> matter). As of
>>>> yet I don't see the latter happening, however.
>>>>
>>>> Are you (PP-GAL) planning to send a delegate to the General
>>>> assembly in
>>>> Prague?
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Justus
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:09 AM, HerNenya <isabel.fdez at mundo-
>>>> r.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I do apologize since last message was my first mail to this
>>>>> list. I'm
>>>>> not used to deal w/ digests.
>>>>>
>>>>> I repeat the message for better reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards to all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Isabel Fernandez.
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a message made by the members of public relations team for
>>>>> PP-GAL. It is agreed by all the members of mentioned team and we
>>>>> want to
>>>>> send it through our link in this mailing list of PPI members so
>>>>> it must
>>>>> be understood in the name of PP-GAL party and not from the
>>>>> sender who
>>>>> forwards this message.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since there were direct references to PP-GAL in this list and
>>>>> the way we
>>>>> organize ourselves in Spain, we consider it is important to be
>>>>> heard in
>>>>> our oppinion before of the rest of pirates parties of the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, we would like to say we are 2 months old as a
>>>>> political
>>>>> party in Spain and our foundation is based on the structure of
>>>>> Spain as
>>>>> a country formed by autonomies as such established in the Spanish
>>>>> Constitution Act [1] in article #148 in order to organize
>>>>> ourselves in
>>>>> the Spaniard territory. Moreover we have our own idiosyncrasy as
>>>>> language and culture quite different from other spaniard
>>>>> territories.
>>>>> Therefore we are an approved political party by the competent
>>>>> Ministry
>>>>> with same rights and duties as PP-ES and PP-CAT.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Kenneth from PP-CAT said in other previous message, we are
>>>>> encouraging a confederation at country level to organize common
>>>>> tasks
>>>>> that affect us as a nation such the cases of #megacomplaint and
>>>>> #opColapso (fighting against Sinde-Wert law [2]) that we are
>>>>> supporting
>>>>> PP-ES, PP-CAT and PP-GAL. Last week we have created a mailing list
>>>>> called pirata-34 to discuss those affairs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the subject about who can vote as a country or by the
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of pirate members, we consider system of countries is not fair
>>>>> precisely
>>>>> because of proportion of the population densities and pirates
>>>>> members. A
>>>>> possible fair solution (as a suggestion) to this matter could be
>>>>> that
>>>>> depending on the number of members from each pirate party, each
>>>>> party
>>>>> will provide a proportional amount of the contingency fund of
>>>>> PPI, as
>>>>> well, each party would have the proportional weight in PPI
>>>>> decisions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Refering to mentions about how to organize internally the
>>>>> different
>>>>> pirate parties in Spain, we considered that this mailing list is
>>>>> not the
>>>>> appropiate place to discuss about it, so we are not going to
>>>>> declare
>>>>> anything here.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/IDIOMAS/9/Espana/LeyFundamental/index.htm
>>>>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Sinde
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Public Relations Team of PP-GAL.
>>>>> http://piratasdegalicia.org/web/
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Isabel Fdez
>>>>> GPG EA63DF8E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________
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>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/
>>>> pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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