[pp.int.general] Pirate Party Situation in Spain

Sun Mar 4 18:02:21 CET 2012

Daniel, don't make me laugh.

Citing yourself 2 hours ago: "I already stop, and any effort from your
part not to keep bringing your political party issues to this list will
be most appreciated by all, I think.".

1st point: I NEVER insulted you, however, you insult me on every email
you write.

2nd point, can you tell me if I'm wrong in any of these statements
instead of insulting me?

- The president you had 1'5 years ago, left the party.
- PP-ES's drop the membership status of at least 200 members without
even a letter, which is mandatory by Spanish law. You simply removed
them from you database. Interestingly, most double-members of PP-ES +
PP-CAT were drop away.
- PP-ES's had some key members from the former board under
investigation, until your Court of Arbitration (CdG) resigned 2 weeks ago.
- Your CdG's (CoA) president resigned mostly because she got rid of some
people's attitude, including yourself, Daniel Riaño.
- Your former secretary deleted all emails from
secretario.jdn at partidopirata.es after leaving the charge, deleting
plenty of evidence about his behavior.
- You have terrible issues to verify who is really a PP-ES member and
who isn't.
- You haven't confirmed PP-ES's PPI membership after 2 years (it was
never a point in any of your GA's, and your statutes say it must be
confirmed by GA)
- You were unable to present to most elections, in fact you have only
presented twice out of more than 12, and the last electoral law's reform
made you unable to run even in Madrid, your stronghold.
- At least 3 members of your former bureau have left the party in the
last 4 weeks.
- A member of your former bureau was kicked away from the party by
handcrafting a resignation letter he never wrote neither signed.
- Your former treasurer had its email spied by other bureau members. You
were also part of that bureau.
- Your former bureau decided to violate your statutes by presenting
candidatures against what it says there (not everyone was a party member
3 months before the call for election).
- Your former bureau added new members to the bureau without any
election, against what your statutes say, again.
- Your current bureau hasn't called for election to refill your resigned
court of arbitration (in less than 3 weeks), as your statutes say.
- Some members of your former bureau threaten us by saying that you
would run for election in Catalonia (hilarious threat, as you couldn't
even run for election in Madrid!)
- TOP anti-RIAA lawyer in Spain (Josep Jover) got rid of your former bureau.
- Most members of PP-ES admit that your statutes are unpractical, not to
say dumb.
- PP-ES has been trying to modify its statutes for 2 years.

On the other hand:

- We decide everything in horizontal way, with e-democracy.
- We were the ones to run for an election in Spain.
- We have helped you in every election were PP-ES has run. Even some of
your TV ads were ours.
- We trained your people in Madrid in Spanish's election law to run for
the city hall, as we already had know-how about it.
- We shared our contents so you could re-use it in your campaigns
- We've given you legal advice in how to modify your statutes and how to
present a candidature.
- We've given you contacts to save money in banner's printing
- We've proposed you a confederation/stable bilateral agreements for up
to 19 months.
- We've looked for candidates (and presented a bunch of them) to help
you run for election in Andalusia.
- I personally gave advice to the Spanish pirates organizing elections
in Madrid and Andalusia.
- 90.5% of Pirate votes in Spain are votes of Pirata.cat
- We're almost 4 times bigger than you, in a quarter of time.

Am I wrong in any of these statements? please, don't insult me, just
tell me in which points I'm wrong.

Too many of your issues aren't just ugly things but illegal things.

Man, if you want to work together, we'll be happy to do so, but please,
don't come here telling us that PP-ES is a cool thing when I do talk
regularly with many of your members/bureau members and we all perfectly
know the issues you have.

We want a confederation umbrella-organization, not leaded by your lack
of internal democracy neither your dumb statutes, to hold Spain's vote
in PPI. We've been working for it for up to 2 years. Do you want so?

Fools hardly realize about who their enemies are.

Regards,

Kenneth

On 04/03/12 17:03, Daniel Riaño wrote:
> Hi Justus,
>
> It is already months since the Spanish PP has being passing in silence
> the insults, personal attacks, innuendos and all kind of defamatory
> rhetoric we have been reading in the PPI lists coming from the side of
> one single member of the PP CAT. Unlike this individual, we, at the
> Spanish PP don't think the PPI lists are the right venue to present
> our local pleas, to wash our laundry, to comment about our internal
> issues or the personal issues with pirates all over Spain, even less
> to do it unfairly with total disregard for actual facts.
>
> Now, since this individual has got some predicament in the lists,
> mainly due to his obsessed insistence on pushing his agenda through
> this list at all cost (even at the cost of sidelining the real issues
> of the PPI at the forecomign General Assembly in Praha) maybe at this
> point some members of the PPI are truly interested to know what's
> really going on among pirates in Spain (and not just " what they think
> is being done wrongly at PPES"). If that's the case, I think the
> directory board of Spain's PP (I am speaking for my self here) will no
> doubt find the time to present a fair account of its position (but
> please mind that we have our papers to finish and jobs to keep and
> things like that) and we will be ready to answer all pertinent
> questions from all you pirates.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Daniel
>
> 2012/3/4 Justus Römeth <roemeth at gmail.com <mailto:roemeth at gmail.com>>
>
>     Moin/hola/ahoi
>
>     Instead of bringing up this topic in a number of threads, I think
>     it should be discussed on its own. Now, please don't make any
>     personal attacks. Instead, it would be nice if Pirates from Spain
>     that know the situation would fill the rest of us in about what
>     they think is being done wrongly at PPES, how they see PP-CAT's
>     and PP-GAL's positions towards this, if they would be okay with
>     forming an umbrella organization that represents the various
>     Spanish PPs towards PPI (and possibly PPEU) or not, and stuff like
>     that.
>
>     I would in particular be interested in knowing whether members of
>     PP-CAT and PP-GAL would be interested in joining PPES as well if
>     PPES gets their problems under control (as long as Catalonia and
>     Galicia are not independent, anyways).
>
>     -J
>
>     ____________________________________________________
>     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>     pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>     http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
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> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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