[pp.int.general] Pirate Party Situation in Spain
kenneth at pirata.cat
Mon Mar 5 03:13:17 CET 2012
Thanks God! at least one PP-ES pirate talking crystal clear in this list! Thank you for making these points clear, specially about Mr Riaño and the former bureau were he belonged.
Just two corrections, we aren't a scission of pp-es, and we grew to 754 (last week's census), not 600.
Don't consider this a payment, but I owe you 2 pilsen beers in Prague, failing on the scission thing made you loose the onion rings :p
Salut!"Elías A. Angulo Klein" <elias.angulo.klein at gmail.com> escribió:This is enough shame for Pirates in Spain in one day.
Effectively, Pirate .ES and Pirate .CAT have their differences.
Since I joined the party I tryed to resolve any difference between two Pirates, never caring to what land they are circunscripted.
I'm a vocal of the Rights and Guarantee Comitee (organ designed to veil for the good work and care of affiliates), and after two presidential dimissions on that organ, I've seen enough to make myself an idea of what was going on, and effectively those differences are very significant: .CAT and .GAL avoided the problem of a .ES party with ridiculous "Estatutos".
The main problem is not a unclear point, article, or title: The main problem is that the full disclosure never expected OTHER Pirate Party in Spain: it was designed as a very centralized, not democratic, not assambleary not even a territorial defined party.
In the time between .CAT scission and .ES last assembly:
- CAT earned almost 600 affiliates. .ES Lost hundreds of affiliates in a subset of the real census allowed to vote the 90% of quorum, leaving a total subset of ~140 allowed to vote in the assembly, and since then 250 in total.
- CAT designed lots of useful applications for voting, discuss, infraestructure like YoAvalo.org, and .ES rejected the help (it was a site designed to locate avalist to the party [in last 20N elections in Spain, almost 70-80% parties were ripped off], etc.
- CAT does not need the organ that i belong to; they don't need it, they solve their problems just talking, and in any case with an assambleary votation.
-.ES assembly was full of irregularities, only a subset [of the subset] of the census were allowed to vote and the one who is now President, of Pirate .ES had to design a properly anonymous but trustworthy program to vote, because the earlier [and that's important] directive bureau wrote all the codes with their feet (unless you could explain, how our census DOES NOT save logs[not all that we need] and our previous voting system DID SAVE LOGS indeed).
... and anyone on .CAT could refer to the two sitemen they earned on March. EVEN they got money to finance the delegation who's going to Prahe, and we still discussing how much is needed for an affiliation (were it all begun for the last time).
So... When we first spoke to this list warning PPi of the situation in Spain (first I met who is in charge of the list, Lola, her thoughts about all of this), I simply asked for help and, ¡hop! Pirates without Borders made his enter. It's incongruent, that if PWB exists outside of our country, we center all of our arguments on were is the border (actually imaginary), that separates some Pirates from others inside the country.
The single idea of thinking in borders in a party who defend something borderless like Internet or the Global Hamlet in a totally Globalized (for good and bad) world makes me sick.
I tryed to reconciliate all the Pirates, with signifficant results: some people can work amazingly well, but only if they ignore the ones who are causing the trouble. I tryed, i promise, for all ways, to make Daniel Riaño notice, that we respect him, his labour and his progresses as a Pirate.
Until having to promote a censorship motion; that only will be retired if a new .MAD(rilonian) assembly was claimed. Once I said to the others "don't forget who we are, and where we are", and he added "and those things we represent". ATM he does not legitimally represent nothing, disregarding who and where you are; but it's the most important thing to be a politician: be polite and loyal to the ones who elected you.
Once you told me also that i never end what i begun, so wait and see. I changed the perception of the troubles in the insight of our own party in a week. This week, I attended the problems you caused. Just give me another week, to put end to all troubles.
Per que nosaltres tenim clar que para entendrer aquest problema, lo més insignificant es la llingua que parlem.
Et cette problemme trouves noir o blanc seul pour les que seul cherchez le solutions noir o blanc.
And I can also speak for myself, thanks.
Et alter lingua Sapiens usare ab hovo.
We're not kids. Al the ones who participated in this thread are sages; one of them perhaps, a savant.
2012/3/4 Eduardo Perdices <edupergar at gmail.com>
This is an official statement of Spain's PP directory board concerning the situation of the Pirate parties active in Spain.
We are addressing this issue not because we think this is something of general interest for most members of the PPI, neither because we think this is the right time or place to present a status questions on this subject. We are writing this statement because we have been asked to do so by some members of the PPI's directory board due, we think, an unrelenting string of defamatory and derogatory (and mostly false) accusations of inefficiency, corruption or lack of nerve upon our party and the party's directory boards, coming from one single individual from another Spanish Pirate Party, namely Pirates de Catalunya. No other member of this party has supported this singular individual in his accusations. Not at least in public, to the best of our knowledge. Were not for this request, we wouldn't have risked to waste the PPIs members time, even less being so close to the General Assembly in Prague.
We are going to talk about things we know for fact, or what we know as a result of serious consults, of information from the other part. We do not talk by hearsay, and when we are not sure about some something, we'll state this clear.
PIRATE PARTIES IN SPAIN
First of all let us clarify what's the situation in Spain, regarding the functioning of recognized political parties describing themselves as "pirates". The Spanish Partido Pirata (hence PIRATA) got official status in December 2006 and almost 4 years later (Nov. 2010) a pirate party limited in scope to the Autonomous Community of Cataluña, Pirates de Catalunya (hence Pirates) was recognized as well. Most of the people from Pirates were members of PIRATA. Some of them retained a double affiliation up to this day. Just a few months ago, a number of 7-8 members of PIRATA from the Autonomous Community of Galicia got political recognition to a new party called Piratas de Galiza
PIRATA never really got the public eye or gained enough momentum to participate in any election before the IX General Assembly (18/09/2010). It lacked affiliates, money founds and political support, it was riddled with personal strife and got itself an ill designed set of regulations that prevented growth and discouraged active participation. Worst of all, the "Estatutos" contained a "blocking article" demanding a seemingly impossible to reach quorum of 90% of affiliates to allow significant internal reforms.
While it would be disingenuous to suggest that the political performance of the Directive Bureau of PIRATA that emerged from the IX General Assembly was exactly efficient, at least during his term it was possible to participate for the first time in local elections, and after strenuous efforts to make the affiliates aware of the "blocking article" issue, it was possible to change the "blocking article" to alleviate the quorum and thus allow statutory changes with a quorum of 66%, instead of the previous 90%.
On 10/12/2011 the X General Assembly of PIRATA took place, and the newly elected Directive Bureau pledged its first priority would be the change of statutes and the building of a new, confederate organization for PIRATA. Since then, we have been discussing the text of the statutes. The statutory process is going apace and in a few months time we will be able to vote a new statutes far more democratic, far more efficient and open, not so reluctant to change and improvement, and decidedly less centralized and more adopted to Spain's decentralized political structure. We have also made important changes and provisions in the mailing lists and means of communications with affiliates and now we have again a "Comité de derechos y Garantías" (a Court of Arbitration, that was deserted by its former incumbents during the bitter internal riffles of the first part of 2011). The new Statutes will make possible for any pirate party (PP-CAT and PP-GA in the first place) to federate with PIRATA, or to any pirates around to start swiftly a working pirate infrastructure. We like to think that in fact, we have very good relationship with most members of the other pirate parties in Spain and elsewhere and we are open to full cooperation with them. In return, we would appreciate at least some personal respect in public fora.
PIRATES IN ELECTIONS
Due to the partially decentralized election calendar in Spain, Pirates was the first pirate party to present itself to elections, in 2010, obtaining a 0'4% of the votes in the municipal elections in Catalonia. In Feb. 2011 took place local elections in most of Spain at the municipal (Catalonia excluded) and Autonomous level. PIRATA participated in this elections and obtained a 0'3% of the votes in Madrid and 0'31% in Málaga.
Starting 2011, political parties without previous acquired representation in the Cortes, are asked to collect the signature of 0,1% of the census on each province of Spain to be able to opt for a chair in the Parliament or the Senate. The former Directive Bureau arrived at an agreement with Pirates. Under such agreement, Pirates will try to collect the signatures in Catalonia (4 provinces) and PIRATA would do the same in the rest of Spain, but would not try to collect signatures in Catalunya. Pirates got enough signatures to present their candidacies in the 4 Catalan provinces, while PIRATA collected enough signatures to do the same in 4 provinces (failing to collect the 100% of the required signatures in Madrid was a specially painful blow). In general, we reached similar results in the provinces where a pirate party could be voted (around 0,66% the best Province of Pirates and 0,54% the best one of PIRATA, Navarra). Both parties collaborated during all the political campaign.
We think our agreement with PP-CAT in the last general elections of 2011 was a venturous move from both parts and we hope we will be able to promote more fruitful collaboration as long as personal respect is maintained from both sides.
NUMBER OF PIRATES
We will address this issue since the person delivering his attacks on PIRATA is doing so partly because personal issues (which is to loathe) but partly because he is claiming full voting rights for Pirates, which is not an irrational request, but is ill presented. While we don't necessarily oppose to that, we must protest that (a) in pursuing this agenda he even promotes to take away Spain Pirate Party vote and (b) he is misleading the PPI members when quoting pirate numbers as a reason to present Pirates as a far bigger party that PIRATA.
When the former Directive Bureau decided to vote the change of the "blocking article" of the statutes, it faced the impressive difficulty of the required quorum: a 90% of the affiliates. The number of affiliates had kept slowly growing over the years, but many of them where just names of people who arrived to our webpages, liked us and our aims, signed as affiliates and then kissed bye-bye forever. With no quotes to pay or any other kind of requirement for permanency, it was impossible to know how many of them where actual members of PIRATA. The directive bureau tried to know how many of them were real affiliates, ready at least to reply to an email requiring from them to confirm their willingness to belong to PIRATA. During a period of several months, no less than two emails (in some Autonomous communities three or four) were sent to anybody who, at some point of his or her existence had shown some prior desire to belong to PIRATA. If no answer whatsoever was obtained, the name was considered no longer an affiliated, but still a sympathizer. In this way, a new, more realistic census of affiliates was created. Thus it was possible to vote the reform of "blocking article", slightly passing the 90% of quorum (and with massive support for the reform) but the number of affiliates dropped to slightly less than a half of the theoretical numbers of affiliated that had been counted before. Now the number of affiliates is about 250, while the theoretical number of affiliates one and half year ago was around 500.
Today we are in the process of introducing a moderate quota for our affiliates (a regular quota of 2€ a month and a reduced quota of 1€ for whoever doesn't want to pay the full quota.) This will slightly alleviate our chronic lack of founds and, most important will make our affiliates more aware of the importance of being a full pirate. Being PIRATA as participative as it is, we would more happily welcome as an affiliate one person willing to discuss, vote, join us in person and spare 12€ a year with the party than having registered in a spread sheet the name of ten people about whom we don't know anything else but their family names and identity number.
Pirates claim they have about 700 affiliates (who are paying no quota), and we do not protest this number, but considering the votes in elections, the real participation in web votes etc. we don't feel like there is a lot of difference in real membership. The problem is that just counting "affiliates" can give you a very different picture, depending on what is needed to count as an affiliate.
According to their own last reports to us (that can actualized a soon as they are willing to do so) we estimate the actual number of members of Pirates de Galiza is about a dozen, most of them also belonging to PIRATA.
We have had personal issues both within PIRATA and with Pirates in the past. This is probably natural and even inevitable due the prolonged contact and charged issues. This is not to condone the heath and hatred of some written interchanges that have been seen in the lists of PPI. We will do our best to keep the personal issues away from this list forever, and in return we would love not to hear again the same inflammatory messages we have been reading in the past and, for the most part, passed in silence.
PIRATA AND PPI
Someone has made the claim on this list that our current statutes forbid us to be members of PPI. That is simply not true, as you can check reading our current statutes (in Spanish: https://www.partidopirata.es/resources/estatutos_pirata.pdf ).
PIRATA considers essential to its role as a pirate party to be a part of the PPI. We are proud of it, we will try to help the PPI in everything within our reach and we hope that soon we will be able to host the General Assembly of the PPI.
We are ready to answer any honest question the PPI members and its board is willing to do to us as the Directive Bureau, or to any of its members about any related issue. We also hope that this will be the last time we have to entertain the PPI members with such internal issues. In the future, we will not respond in public to the kind of vicious attacks we have been addressed by one person of Pirates in the past, but we reserve our right to call such importune public invectives against PIRATA or its members to the attention of the PPI court of arbitration.
Best regards, liebe Grüße, nos sincères salutations, saludos
Spain's PP directory board
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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