[pp.int.general] Companies that trap and sue P2P users in Germany

[Andrew Norton]

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On 3/9/2012 5:09 PM, Rok Andrée wrote:
> This practice was pretty popular a while back in england and torrent
> freak reported on it a lot.
> 
> I thought it was all done with? They are still doing this?

It first started in Germany. In fact, when it came to the UK, Davenport
Lyons put in their letters (after getting the Norwich pharmacal letters
to get the contact details) references to German law saying that the
onus was on the subscriber, and they felt the uk courts would think the
same.

One company is still trying to do it in the UK now
http://torrentfreak.com/pay-up-or-else-bittorrent-scheme-resurrected-in-uk-high-court-120309/

And it's now quite common in the US as well, where it's been mostly
stymied by the joinder issue, and juresdiction. In fact, I've been
speaking to a lawyer about some of these cases, helping him understand
the situation and the technologies. We might be able to get some good
case law done!

I also spoke about it at length with another lawyer a few months back,
when doing a bittorrent Q+A session as part of the EFF track at one of
the world's biggest sci-fi conventions. you can get the audio here -
http://www.efforums.net/index.php/2011-schedule-and-audio/monday.html

Andrew
Pirate Party of Georgia (US) member
Pirate Party UK member

> 
> Lp
> Rok Andrée
> Piratska stranka Slovenije - Slovenian Pirate Party
> 
> 
> 
> On 9 March 2012 22:49, Markus Drenger
> <markus.drenger at piratenpartei-hessen.de
> <mailto:markus.drenger at piratenpartei-hessen.de>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     in short: yes, they do.
> 
>     long version:
>     rights holders pay lawyers or "warning companies" to sue people. they
>     have a secret software that watches p2p traffic. if they see an
>     infrigement they can go to your isp and ask for your name and adress by
>     providing IP and timestamp.
>     Then they send you a warning letter "don't do it again and here is your
>     bill". Courts ruled that a warning letter for a first noncommercial
>     "small" infrigement may be up to 100€.
>     Please note: this entire process is extrajudicial. Their business case
>     is "pay a little fine or we take this to court" and many people pay.
> 
>     There is misuse of this concept:
>     companies, specialised in writing warning letters, send the same letter
>     to tenthousands of people, we even have a word for that "Abmahnwelle" -
>     "wave of warnings".
>     There are stories of those companys which put their clients' content on
>     the internet. Of course, downloading content put on the internet by the
>     rightsholder is legal, but if they take you to court, you have to proof,
>     that they uploaded it. And this modi operandi is not widely known, so an
>     average lawyer or judge will not consider this.
>     Afair there was even a company, which put content without the
>     rightsholders consent on the internet and tried to sue people for
>     downloading it.
> 
>     if people don't pay, only a very little number of cases go to court. but
>     in a court case those companies problably win, by providing "evidence"
>     recorded by their secret p2p-observer software.
> 
>     Greetings,
>     Markus Drenger
> 
> 
>     right holders can send you a warning letter for infriging their
>     copyright.
> 
>     Am 09.03.12 22:09, schrieb Richard Stallman:
>     > I'm told there are companies that set traps for P2P sharers in
>     Germany,
>     > and then send threatening letters saying they will sue if the victims
>     > don't immediately pay 1000 euros.
>     >
>     > Does anyone here know anything about this?  For instance, can
>     > those companies really win if they sue?
>     >
>     > --
>     > Dr Richard Stallman
>     > President, Free Software Foundation
>     > 51 Franklin St
>     > Boston MA 02110
>     > USA
>     > www.fsf.org <http://www.fsf.org>  www.gnu.org <http://www.gnu.org>
>     > Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
>     >   Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/
>     >
>     > ____________________________________________________
>     > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>     > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>     > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>     >
> 
>     ____________________________________________________
>     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>     pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>     http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general


- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.co.uk
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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