[pp.int.general] The true core Pirates principles, -Serious attempt to get a workable consensus - TLDR version

[thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl]

First: exactly, that means we are open to all influences, but by
assimilating them without regard we create an internal balance between
competing ideologies and have them filter one another out - the whole can
then use that internal ideological component to evaluate it's proposals
from a socialist or nazi perspective, and thus create proposals that are to
the liking of everyone else. We win. 

We win because we have had all the debates, angles, counterproposals and
arguements internally already, and whatever is left over is what everyone
could agree on, and then so can the rest of the political parties. We
cannot harvest this if we start to get ideological, there would be blind
spots, the other parties would come with good points we've overlooked
collectively cause they stem from a branch of ideology not presently
condoned. 

We can very well play the game of politics just one level higher than the
all the other parties - and make them redundant in the proces. After all
politics is a form of information processing, and as far as manpower is
concerned, I think we have a winning edge between the lot of us. All we
need to do now is to find ways to make that advantage concrete. The rest is
irrelevant - power, in the end, is a matter of activity - and we will
spread that out over as many nodes as want to be involved, cause we will
find ways to make that manpower count. Oh yes, I have plans. 

Your ideology & principles are in the way, playing last century's
political game & will not leave us with any sort of advantage as a
political party, nor will they change anything in the long run. Ideologies
and principles come and go, what remains is the balance of power. We must
use this opportunity to maximize the number of nodes involved in the flow
of power - particulary around the area's where previously there were only a
handfull, as around representatives in representative demcoracies. By doing
their job for them. Better. Some 50, 60 thousand voters versus one
representative - I think we can succeed brilliantly here. 

Second - might not be a bad idea actually, considering they're doing all
the hard work around here, we might as well pay them for it. Socialism,
like communism, does not seem to be rather a futile excercize without it
spanning the globe.

On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:49:47 +0200, Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:30 PM,  <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:
>> Let's keep it more simple than a long list:
>>
>> Our core principle is: to make the decision that is most beneficial to
>> most people over the longest term. The rest is circumstantial.
> 
> I am afraid this would not be very helpful, because of two things.
> 
> First - on some level this is something that everybody agrees about -
> and thus it does not work for defining what Pirate Party is - for
> differentiating it from any other party.  And that is important,
> because we need some group identity.  Imagine that at some point
> pirates become popular and that for example a socialist party changes
> its name to Pirate Party - they agree with your utilitarian principle
> - so I guess we should allow that, then a a nazist party, decides that
> their program is also the most beneficial to most people (they just
> define people in a different way), and you know.
> 
> Second - as a political principle it has the problem that the logical
> consequence of it would be taxing the hell out of all developed
> nations and transfer all that money to Africa, Latin America and Asia.
>  You would need a lot of rhetorical gymnastic to not come out as
> hypocrite if you would not do that.