[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?

Fri Jun 7 18:23:21 CEST 2013

Thanks 
Well said 

----- Reply message -----
From: "Johan Karlsson" <johan at landslide.nu>
To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk" <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
Subject: [pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?
Date: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 19:04
Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same team here, fighting for the same goal.

Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed. But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement. When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.

I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at least two or three other people that hate him or her.

I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.

Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of the movement depends on it.

Kind Regards
Johan Karlsson
Member of the Swedish Pirate party

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:

Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad! These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors. Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and transparant fashion.

Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:

Patric.

since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I

refrain from answering.

Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a public

mailing list.

YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.

sincerely yours,

Gregory Engels

Co-Chairman

Pirate Parties International

mobile: +49 172 853 44 91

skype:gregory.engels

jabber:dichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de

my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter

On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk

<patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:

Patrick,

Please stop this.

Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not seeing the reality how it is.

I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April

also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,

makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are

members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board

are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*

problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.

Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you should be able

to interpret the results, instead of making false accusations based on

misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some problem with the

website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the output

pointing to google. This is however entirely irrelevant for the Website.

Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've pointed

out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the point, as

the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts

on pp-international.net, as you could've deduced from the fact

that I specifically ran dig for MX records.

You are keeping ranting around, without considering the possibility

that you might be wrong.

Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,

this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad

hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm

out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no

strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as

apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be

in, but that's a different matter.)

What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending

an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think

journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy

for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*

why I'm sending this e-mail thread.

Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net mx" which gives

you most everything about the MAIL routing to the op-international.net

domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to other subdomains

or the WEB lookup.

As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned

that this issue is specifically related to the

pp-international.net domain. Not lists.$ or

lists.pirateweb.org. You're sending me an argument I've made

myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?

If you have something important to say, that should stay private, use

some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only have a false

impression of security.

Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make

their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just

assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent

encryption.

that is all said. everything else is just mindless ranting and fighting.

there is no need for this. I am not against you, or anybody inside the

pirate movement, and we should treat each other with the due respect,

as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely voluntarily.

Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.

Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll

lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're

'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive

aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.

Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration out from google,

but then, we would miss them for other projects, and in the end,

we would only switch from something that is working flawlessly to something

else, without improving anything or solving any problem.

According to <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>

there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough

experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not

a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is

all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever

currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost

again?

Also, what other projects?

--

Patrick Godschalk

patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl

GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)

This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.

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