[pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?

Fri Jun 7 19:12:06 CEST 2013

And you need to learn what it means to stay on-topic.

On 07 Jun 2013, at 18:58, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:

> A minimum of respect for logic, ethic, and our own rules should do a lot towards keeping things civilized...
> 
> ... but then, some PPI officials and also Pirate Party elites are in dire need of learning what that is...
> 
> 
> ... because it is them who are ruining everything Pirate pursuing shady personal gains.
> 
> 
> And the rest is just looking on and letting them get away with it because they have never known what being a pirate is supposed to look like.
> 
> 
> R. I. P.  PPI. :( .
> 
> 
> Two years of childish bullshit and self-catering for some... has been enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Antonio. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 18:48:42 +0200
> > From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Fwd: Really now?
> > 
> > On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Travis McCrea <me at travismccrea.com> wrote:
> > > Johan,
> > > This is a message that I keep trying to spread on this mailing list. I am glad someone else understands the importance of unity.
> > 
> > Actually I don't think we need unity - we need to accept that we are
> > all different and have different ideas and we don't need to agree with
> > each other on everything. I believe that it is the thinking that we
> > need to be a unity that generates all the heat here - because it makes
> > people feel that a differnce is unacceptable.
> > 
> > Z.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > Johan Karlsson wrote:
> > >> Everyone, please, try to be nice to each other. We are all on the same
> > >> team here, fighting for the same goal.
> > >>
> > >> Every time you send an angry email to this list someone is going to
> > >> feel targeted and become a bit demoralized. Depending on who that is
> > >> he or she will either be very sad after just a single email. Or
> > >> perhaps the recipient of the email will only feel a tiny bit annoyed.
> > >> But after a while all those tiny bits of annoyance will start to get
> > >> to you and you wont find it fun to continue working for the movement.
> > >> When that happens you either try to struggle on, but will feel the
> > >> need to yell at others just to stay sane, or you will simply drop out
> > >> of the Pirate party. Dropping out may actually then be the best thing
> > >> for the movement as a whole as you at least stop spreading that bad mode.
> > >>
> > >> I know its hard to get along, and especially in a large group like
> > >> this there WILL be people you dont like, or perhaps even hate. The
> > >> problem is that everyone feels the same way as you, but towards
> > >> different people. I actually think that everyone on this list have at
> > >> least two or three other people that hate him or her.
> > >> I dont feel very good about that. Id really like to ask all of you to
> > >> please consider what you are doing. When you write an angry email to
> > >> someone Im sure you think you are doing good - taking a stand for a
> > >> very important issue, such as for example this one with the emails
> > >> being scanned by google and perhaps NSA. The problem is that there are
> > >> hundreds, perhaps even thousands of issues that is just about as
> > >> important as this one. And if we shall make someone feel bad or
> > >> perhaps even leaving the movement for every single issue there soon
> > >> wont be many pirates left to fix the issues at hand.
> > >>
> > >> Im not asking you to be quiet about your opinions. They are really
> > >> important and what makes us go forward as a movement. But Im begging
> > >> you to, please, consider how you are phrasing yourself and please stop
> > >> this mass bullying of all other pirates on this list. The future of
> > >> the movement depends on it.
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards
> > >> Johan Karlsson
> > >> Member of the Swedish Pirate party
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Thijs Markus
> > >> <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl <mailto:thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Yes, how terribly impolite to keep an open and transparant
> > >> discussion thus. Transparancy is bad and you should feel bad!
> > >> These things ought to be resolved in private, behind closed doors.
> > >> Else some blatant incompetence might be become public knowledge
> > >> and we wouldn't want that now would we? You see, some people
> > >> simply lack the merits to counterbalance their failings, and it'd
> > >> be horribly unfair to them if we did things in an open and
> > >> transparant fashion.
> > >>
> > >> Gregory Engels schreef op 07.06.2013 17:06:
> > >>
> > >> Patric.
> > >>
> > >> since you stated, that you are not interested in what I write, I
> > >> refrain from answering.
> > >> Also, It is unacceptable to forward private conversation to a
> > >> public
> > >> mailing list.
> > >> YOU are talking about privacy issues? Dude, get a life.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> sincerely yours,
> > >>
> > >> Gregory Engels
> > >> Co-Chairman
> > >> Pirate Parties International
> > >>
> > >> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
> > >> skype:gregory.engels
> > >> jabber:dichter at jabber.__piratenpartei.de
> > >> <mailto:jabber%3Adichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de>
> > >> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 07.06.2013, at 14:39, Patrick Godschalk
> > >> <patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
> > >> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Patrick,
> > >>
> > >> Please stop this.
> > >> Believe me, there is no problem, and you are not
> > >> seeing the reality how it is.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I consider this a problem. The people in this thread in April
> > >> also seemed to consider this a problem. That, by definition,
> > >> makes it a problem for some people. And since those people are
> > >> members of Pirate Parties, you know, the people you as a board
> > >> are supposed to help coordinate, that also makes it *your*
> > >> problem as a board, whether you like or agree with it or not.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Since you have posted the DIG output of PPI Dns you
> > >> should be able
> > >> to interpret the results, instead of making false
> > >> accusations based on
> > >> misunderstanding. You claim, that there is some
> > >> problem with the
> > >> website, cause you se some A and AAAA records in the
> > >> output
> > >> pointing to google. This is however entirely
> > >> irrelevant for the Website.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Again, I have NO idea how the website is hosted as I've
> > >> pointed
> > >> out in three earlier mails. That also wasn't ever the
> > >> point, as
> > >> the thread was specifically started around the e-mail accounts
> > >> on pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net>, as
> > >> you could've deduced from the fact
> > >> that I specifically ran dig for MX records.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You are keeping ranting around, without considering
> > >> the possibility
> > >> that you might be wrong.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Possibly, but the same could be said about you. Regardless,
> > >> this isn't a constructive argument whatsoever and an ad
> > >> hominem at best. You seem to be under the impression that I'm
> > >> out to 'get you', or 'get PPI'. I'm not. In fact, I have no
> > >> strong feelings about you or PPI whatsoever. (Also known as
> > >> apathy, which isn't a good position for your members to be
> > >> in, but that's a different matter.)
> > >>
> > >> What I *do* care about is the privacy of individuals sending
> > >> an e-mail to PPI for any reason whatsoever. Think
> > >> journalists, who are in many countries dependent on privacy
> > >> for their job and in a few countries, their life. *THAT'S*
> > >> why I'm sending this e-mail thread.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Your initial question was "dig pp-international.net
> > >> <http://pp-international.net> mx" which gives
> > >> you most everything about the MAIL routing to the
> > >> op-international.net <http://op-international.net>
> > >> domain. It gives you NONE answer for mail routing to
> > >> other subdomains
> > >> or the WEB lookup.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> As I've addressed in my earlier mail, yes, when I mentioned
> > >> that this issue is specifically related to the
> > >> pp-international.net <http://pp-international.net> domain.
> > >> Not lists.$ or
> > >> lists.pirateweb.org <http://lists.pirateweb.org>. You're
> > >> sending me an argument I've made
> > >> myself in an earlier e-mail. Wut?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> If you have something important to say, that should
> > >> stay private, use
> > >> some encryption, for goodness sake! otherwise you only
> > >> have a false
> > >> impression of security.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Okay, yeah. Guys, show's over! Everyone should just make
> > >> their own privacy. No need for us anymore, lets all just
> > >> assume everyone has the technical know-how to run decent
> > >> encryption.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> that is all said. everything else is just mindless
> > >> ranting and fighting.
> > >> there is no need for this. I am not against you, or
> > >> anybody inside the
> > >> pirate movement, and we should treat each other with
> > >> the due respect,
> > >> as we all doing our job out of idealism and entirely
> > >> voluntarily.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Honestly, I've found your tone more disrespectful than not.
> > >> Again, I don't really mind or care, I can take it if it'll
> > >> lead to actually getting shit *done*. But whether you're
> > >> 'against me' or not, lets cut it out with the passive
> > >> aggressiveness. I prefer raw hate.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Yes, we could spend our few resources for migration
> > >> out from google,
> > >> but then, we would miss them for other projects, and
> > >> in the end,
> > >> we would only switch from something that is working
> > >> flawlessly to something
> > >> else, without improving anything or solving any problem.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> According to
> > >> <https://github.com/Pirate-__Parties-International
> > >> <https://github.com/Pirate-Parties-International>>
> > >> there are (at least) 168 people with more than enough
> > >> experience to set up a simple mail server. Therefore it's not
> > >> a matter of volunteers being available. A simple VPS (which is
> > >> all that's needed really) will net you under 5$ (or whatever
> > >> currency) a month. How much did the Kazán conference cost
> > >> again?
> > >>
> > >> Also, what other projects?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Patrick Godschalk
> > >> patrick.godschalk at __piratenpartij.nl
> > >> <mailto:patrick.godschalk at piratenpartij.nl>
> > >> GPG: 86DF FF6F B123 EEF8 AE43 E652 33C0 785F A15F 01AA (SHA-1)
> > >> This e-mail is under the CC0 Public Domain Dedication.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________________________________
> > >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > >> pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
> > >> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> > >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
> > >> <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________________________________
> > >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > >> pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
> > >> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> > >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
> > >> <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________
> > >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > > ____________________________________________________
> > > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Zbigniew Lukasiak
> > http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> > http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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