[pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list
pirate at valio.ch
pirate at valio.ch
Sat Jun 15 21:29:05 CEST 2013
Not necessarily.
In your previous mail you included him in the CC; he's still there in
my mail here as well.
-pat
Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
> He must have signed on again just to tell you all...
>
> Must be pathologic, lol.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:59:55 +0200
> Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> thoughts for the mailing list
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>
> Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????
>
> Salut!
> Kenneth
>
>
> -------- Missatge original --------
> De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> Data: 15/06/2013 19:14 (GMT+01:00)
> A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International
> -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> thoughts for the mailing list
>
>
> Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does
> not conform to his own personal beliefs.
>
> Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does
> seem to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and
> superb example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya . Certainly
> worth the Nobel Price of insult and slander.
>
> He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in
> Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could
> have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German
> Pirate Party just before two crucial regional elections.
>
> Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead
> of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the
> movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and
> illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well,
> you all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.
>
> In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya Mr. Peiruza tries to paint
> the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not conform
> to his present beliefs...
>
> ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the
> Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members
> were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his
> own agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.
>
> The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,
> with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and
> international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor
> local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and
> other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party
> voluntarily.
>
> One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was
> that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad
> experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the
> protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that
> they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could
> only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of
> the membership of the party.
>
> I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr.
> Peiruza that many of the original founders and initial membership of
> the Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be
> quite lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can
> imagine why he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit
> his needs. In any case... I can imagine that he would never have
> found enough backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for
> his and others particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.
>
> Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the
> whole of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed
> at the national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide
> ways to participate in regional and local elections.
>
> Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very
> hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain
> to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and
> local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than
> optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees,
> that difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed
> no reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not
> written off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote
> to make important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set
> their aim at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no
> procedure whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be
> found... expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the
> Spanish Pirate Party could have participated in the Catalan regional
> elections.
>
> THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all
> difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their
> regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate
> Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before
> being Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate
> brand.
>
> While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he
> says that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed
> what he says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic
> Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.
>
> The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way
> insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he
> may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the
> Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited
> by acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and
> little realityaware members.
>
> For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more
> and more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism
> and simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M /
> Indignado / Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near
> communist, dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men...
> for everyone to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not
> know yet how to make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall
> apply an intellectual lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the
> dumbest. The majority of not so smart members decides, and it
> decides to ignore anything it does not understand without effort.
>
> As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving
> unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.
>
> And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows
> like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around
> to rate the previous gatherings).
>
> Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney
> pipe up my ass ;) ...
>
> ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,
> and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.
>
>
> And rules for mailing lists etc. won't change a thing... you can
> not impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to
> understand why they are necessary...
>
> ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally
> to deal with their enforcement.
>
>
> The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If
> not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat
> units we try to build it with.
>
> Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in
> our present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has
> to decide what has to be done.
>
> We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where
> everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing
> to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.
>
>
> I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really
> serious about the Pirate stuff...
>
> ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth
> preserving will be a futile game.
>
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200
> From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> thoughts for the mailing list
>
> This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing
> and insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.
> This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at
> a diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.
> So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh
> one (as you suggested in your swarmwise).
> If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just
> unsubscribed.It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009,
> but right now it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.
> Regards,
>
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> -------- Missatge original --------
> De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se>
> Data: 15/06/2013 14:23 (GMT+01:00)
> A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts
> for the mailing list
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was not
> set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal
> complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base
> a complaint on.
>
> After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you
> want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,
> and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts
> and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm
> way of collaborating.
>
>
> Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:
>
> - - Attention is reward.
> - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something
> you do like.
>
>
> ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,
> you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something
> you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to
> things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be
> nurtured by your attention.
>
>
> IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO
> LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a
> meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different
> things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but
> by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of
> their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing
> the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we
> must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,
> but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the
> more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to
> seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down
> your own path that you believe more in.
>
>
> (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more
> in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences
> taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five
> chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:
>
> http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/
>
> )
>
> Cheers,
> Rick
>
>
>
> PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow
> activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether
> to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but
> that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.
> See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list
> server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.
>
>
> - --
> Rick Falkvinge
> Founder of the first Pirate Party
> Piratpartiet SE
>
> @Falkvinge
> +46708303600
>
> Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/
>
> My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, it
> was not sent by me.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo
> yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0
> =+ojY
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
More information about the pp.international.general
mailing list