[pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list

Sat Jun 15 21:32:51 CEST 2013

"Until in hindsight and far too late you can finally make a solid case."

The situation is far worse... many have voluntarily cooperated to make sure I could NOT present a solid case in Kazan. After getting rid of the Court of Arbitration where I had already presented it following the applicable rules.

Applicable rules that were provisory and pending ratification by the PPI GA in Prague. Prague did not discuss nor ratify them. Still provisory and pending ratification thus by the PPI GA in Kazan... and Kazan did not discuss nor ratify them. But neither did any of those GAs rule they were not enforceable anymore.

And then the members of the CoA resigned leaving all pending matter to be solved by the PPI GA in Kazan...

... and all we did in Kazan was elect a new Court of Arbitration...

... that has had the guts to tell me there is NOTHING pending.

Kiddy play must end one day.

Antonio.

> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:07:51 +0200
> From: thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> To: kenneth at pirata.cat; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list
> 
> And with all these pots and kettles around, what poor soul would 
> moderate?
> 
> If someone steals your wallet, and you call him a thief, aside from 
> being unkind and personal, you're also telling the truth. Forbid these 
> things from being said, and thievery will proliferate unnoticed. Hasn't 
> it ever struck you how underneath all the niceties politicians so 
> frequently exchange there is a vast reservoir of corruption and 
> selective interest - cause calling someone out on it would be 
> politically incorrect? Under the cover of niceness so many a vile act 
> can proliferate far too easily, cause spelling them out is a faux pas. 
> Until in hindsight and far too late you can finally make a solid case. 
> This is not the sort of culture we ought to desire if we are to change 
> anything about it.
> 
> All of you need to be very careful what you wish for here. A nice 
> atmosphere is the result of a good, constructive, participative 
> environment, but the other way around is simply fighting the symptoms 
> while worsening the causes.
> 
> Kenneth Peiruza schreef op 15.06.2013 19:59:
> > Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????
> >
> > Salut!
> >
> > Kenneth
> >
> > -------- Missatge original --------
> > De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> > Data: 15/06/2013 19:14 (GMT+01:00)
> > A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International
> > -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> > Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> > thoughts for the mailing list
> >
> > Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does
> > not conform to his own personal beliefs.
> >
> > Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does 
> > seem
> > to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and 
> > superb
> > example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya [1] . Certainly worth
> > the Nobel Price of insult and slander.
> >
> > He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in
> > Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could
> > have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German Pirate
> > Party just before two crucial regional elections.
> >
> > Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead
> > of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the
> > movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and
> > illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well, you
> > all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.
> >
> > In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya [2] Mr. Peiruza tries to
> > paint the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not
> > conform to his present beliefs...
> >
> > ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the
> > Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members
> > were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his 
> > own
> > agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.
> >
> > The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,
> > with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and
> > international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor
> > local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and
> > other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party
> > voluntarily.
> >
> > One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was
> > that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad
> > experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the
> > protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that
> > they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could
> > only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of the
> > membership of the party.
> >
> > I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr. Peiruza
> > that many of the original founders and initial membership of the
> > Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be 
> > quite
> > lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can imagine 
> > why
> > he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit his needs. In
> > any case... I can imagine that he would never have found enough
> > backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for his and 
> > others
> > particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.
> >
> > Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the 
> > whole
> > of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed at the
> > national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide ways to
> > participate in regional and local elections.
> >
> > Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very
> > hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain
> > to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and
> > local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than
> > optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees, that
> > difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed no
> > reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not 
> > written
> > off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote to make
> > important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set their aim
> > at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no procedure
> > whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be found...
> > expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the Spanish Pirate
> > Party could have participated in the Catalan regional elections.
> >
> > THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all
> > difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their
> > regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate
> > Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before being
> > Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate brand.
> >
> > While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he 
> > says
> > that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed what he
> > says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic
> > Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.
> >
> > The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way
> > insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he
> > may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the
> > Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited 
> > by
> > acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and 
> > little
> > realityaware members.
> >
> > For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more and
> > more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism and
> > simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M / Indignado /
> > Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near communist,
> > dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men... for everyone
> > to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not know yet how to
> > make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall apply an 
> > intellectual
> > lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the dumbest. The majority of not
> > so smart members decides, and it decides to ignore anything it does
> > not understand without effort.
> >
> > As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving
> > unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.
> >
> > And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows
> > like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around 
> > to
> > rate the previous gatherings).
> >
> > Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney
> > pipe up my ass ;) ...
> >
> > ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,
> > and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.
> >
> > And rules for mailing lists etc. won't change a thing... you can not
> > impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to 
> > understand
> > why they are necessary...
> >
> > ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally to
> > deal with their enforcement.
> >
> > The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If
> > not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat
> > units we try to build it with.
> >
> > Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in our
> > present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has to
> > decide what has to be done.
> >
> > We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where
> > everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing
> > to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.
> >
> > I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really 
> > serious
> > about the Pirate stuff...
> >
> > ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth preserving
> > will be a futile game.
> >
> > Antonio.
> >
> > -------------------------
> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200
> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
> > thoughts for the mailing list
> >
> > This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing and
> > insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.
> >
> > This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at a
> > diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.
> >
> > So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh one
> > (as you suggested in your swarmwise).
> >
> > If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just unsubscribed.
> > It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009, but right now
> > it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kenneth
> >
> > -------- Missatge original --------
> > De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se>
> > Data: 15/06/2013 14:23 (GMT+01:00)
> > A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> > <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> > Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts
> > for the mailing list
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was 
> > not
> > set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal
> > complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base
> > a complaint on.
> >
> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you
> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,
> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts
> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm
> > way of collaborating.
> >
> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:
> >
> > - - Attention is reward.
> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something
> >  you do like.
> >
> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,
> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something
> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to
> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be
> > nurtured by your attention.
> >
> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO
> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a
> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many 
> > different
> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, 
> > but
> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of
> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing
> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, 
> > we
> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,
> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the
> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to
> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down
> > your own path that you believe more in.
> >
> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more
> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences
> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five
> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:
> >
> > 
> > http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/
> >
> > )
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rick
> >
> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow
> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether
> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but
> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.
> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list
> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.
> >
> > - --
> > Rick Falkvinge
> > Founder of the first Pirate Party
> > Piratpartiet SE
> >
> > @Falkvinge
> > +46708303600
> >
> > Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/
> >
> > My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, 
> > it
> > was not sent by me.
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo
> > yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0
> > =+ojY
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> > ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> > International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > [3]
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] http://iPir.at/catalunya
> > [2] http://iPir.at/catalunya
> > [3] 
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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