[pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list

[Antonio Garcia]

Pathetic.

No scandalous, unbearable behaviour from me during the whole PPI 2012 Prague GA, where you moron went as far as blackmail...

No scandalous, unbearable nor disturbing behaviour from me during the whole PPI 2013 Kazan/Brussels GA, three full days and two full nights I shared with all present in Brussel... despite effectively being shoved a chimney pipe up the ass in terms of not being listened to as to what had to be done...

... and it is not about having pain in the ass that I should be visiting a doctor?

And of course, you still dare talk about other peoples ethic after writing this ( http://ipir.at/catalunya ) piece of shit.

It is sadly obvious you wont be visiting a psychiatrist any time soon...

Less obvious why all the rest endures your machinations and even go along with them.


Well, I can perfectly imagine why, but it would  be "politically incorrect" and probably highly improductive to state it, not to the people that let you get away with it this far.


A big and consolidated loss to the credibility of the whole Pirate Movement.


Have fun while it lasts.



Antonio.


Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:53:46 +0200
Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list
From: kenneth at pirata.cat
To: pirate at valio.ch; ningunotro at hotmail.com
CC: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net

I pushed the fucking unsubscribe link, filled-in my email and received an ok but no confirmation email, so, sadly I am still here, watching this moron talking about me and wanking about what might I think or have done.
Pathetic moron, please go visit a doctor.
Salut!
Kenneth


-------- Missatge original --------
De: pirate at valio.ch 
Data: 15/06/2013  21:50  (GMT+01:00) 
A: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> 
Ac: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>,Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> 
Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts for the mailing list 
 

True; I forgot about that possible shortcoming with my theory.

-pat

Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:

> I checked, the list published his reply too :( . Should not have  
> been if he had cancelled subscription.
>
> Of course, he can have unsubscribed as he told, and then sign on  
> again just to answer.
>
> Or he may have lied.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:29:05 +0200
>> From: pirate at valio.ch
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net; ningunotro at hotmail.com
>> CC: kenneth at pirata.cat; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some  
>> thoughts for the mailing list
>>
>> Not necessarily.
>> In your previous mail you included him in the CC; he's still there in
>> my mail here as well.
>>
>> -pat
>>
>> Quoting Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
>>
>> > He must have signed on again just to tell you all...
>> >
>> > Must be pathologic, lol.
>> >
>> >
>> > Antonio.
>> >
>> >
>> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:59:55 +0200
>> > Subject: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
>> > thoughts for the mailing list
>> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
>> > To: ningunotro at hotmail.com; pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> >
>> > Can somebody please ban this mentall ill liar?????
>> >
>> > Salut!
>> > Kenneth
>> >
>> >
>> > -------- Missatge original --------
>> > De: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>> > Data: 15/06/2013  19:14  (GMT+01:00)
>> > A: Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>,Pirate Parties International
>> > -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>> > Assumpte: RE: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
>> > thoughts for the mailing list
>> >
>> >
>> > Mr. Peiruza has a very developed habit of discrediting whatever does
>> > not conform to his own personal beliefs.
>> >
>> > Of course, this is bullshit! Only when he does it himself he does
>> > seem to have a blind eye and be very tolerating. One not so nice and
>> > superb example is this one: http://iPir.at/catalunya . Certainly
>> > worth the Nobel Price of insult and slander.
>> >
>> > He must also be the only person to have blackmailed a PPI GA, in
>> > Prague, where he threatened to derail it at a moment when it could
>> > have had a terrible impact on the press coverage of the German
>> > Pirate Party just before two crucial regional elections.
>> >
>> > Sadly, the whole pirate movement is in such a bad shape that instead
>> > of not achieving his goals, he got rewarded by the kids in the
>> > movement and certain bastard interests... and everything legal and
>> > illegal was done to keep the issue off the agenda in Kazan. Well,
>> > you all know hat you have to live with, and whether it is bearable.
>> >
>> > In the document http://iPir.at/catalunya Mr. Peiruza tries to paint
>> > the Spanish Pirate Party black because it did and does not conform
>> > to his present beliefs...
>> >
>> > ... but what he does not tell is that he became a member of the
>> > Spanish Pirate Party knowing what it stood for and who its members
>> > were, and that he broke away of it keeping the brand to follow his
>> > own agenda with a few other fellow Catalans.
>> >
>> > The Spanish Pirate party started as a clean copy of the Swedish one,
>> > with a focus on issues that were dealt with at the national and
>> > international level. No provisions for participation in regional nor
>> > local elections existed thus in its Statutes, and Mr. Peiruza and
>> > other Catalans were bound to know this when they joined the party
>> > voluntarily.
>> >
>> > One particularity of the Statutes of the Spanish Pirate Party was
>> > that, the people founding the party had probably had some bad
>> > experiences in the past, and had been a bit paranoid as to the
>> > protection of the basic identity and goals of the party... such that
>> > they protected that part of the Statutes stipulating that they could
>> > only be changed with a majority vote expressed by at least 90% of
>> > the membership of the party.
>> >
>> > I was not there, I can say nothing about the assertion by Mr.
>> > Peiruza that many of the original founders and initial membership of
>> > the Spanish Pirate Party were rightwingers... he himself seems to be
>> > quite lefty and a good friend of Catalan separatists... so I can
>> > imagine why he might like to exagerate certain tendencies to suit
>> > his needs. In any case... I can imagine that he would never have
>> > found enough backing to have the Statutes changed so as to cater for
>> > his and others particular interests regarding the region of Catalunya.
>> >
>> > Fact is thus... that a Spanish Pirate Party existed covering the
>> > whole of Spain, and catering for issues that could only be addressed
>> > at the national and european level. Its Statutes did not provide
>> > ways to participate in regional and local elections.
>> >
>> > Mr. Peiruza and his Catalan comrades would certainly have had a very
>> > hard time trying to convince the membership scattered over all Spain
>> > to vote a Statutes change to allow for participation in regional and
>> > local elections. To be honest, an added difficulty was the less than
>> > optimal member register combined by the lack of membership fees,
>> > that difficulted the writeoff of people that once adhered but showed
>> > no reactions to efforts to contact them. As long as they were not
>> > written off... they were part of the census of which 90% had to vote
>> > to make important Statutes changes possible. When the Catalans set
>> > their aim at participating in the Catalan regional elections... no
>> > procedure whatsoever respectful of the rights of members could be
>> > found... expedient enough to change the Statutes in time so the
>> > Spanish Pirate Party could have participated in the Catalan regional
>> > elections.
>> >
>> > THAT is the one and only REAL reason why... they decided to skip all
>> > difficulties and abandon everyone that did not cater for their
>> > regional priorities, and forgetting the master lines of the Pirate
>> > Movement, created a split only to be able to be Catalans before
>> > being Pirates, while conveniently continuing to squat the Pirate
>> > brand.
>> >
>> > While he only dares say it when it suits him, he is right when he
>> > says that this Pirate Movement isn't a Swarm anymore. It is indeed
>> > what he says, and he has forgotten to mention the few ultrapragmatic
>> > Überbureaucrats that cater for their own personal agenda.
>> >
>> > The initial guidelines provided by Rick have shown to be way
>> > insufficient to maintain cohesion within the movement. And while he
>> > may have provided sufficient leadership in Sweden, elsewhere the
>> > Pirate Parties have fallen prey to populist interpretations limited
>> > by acute knowledge of facts by the majority of their unskilled and
>> > little realityaware members.
>> >
>> > For a swarm to grow and become stronger... it has to attract more
>> > and more intelligent members... but it has fallen prey to simplism
>> > and simplifications along the road, specially since the 15M /
>> > Indignado / Occupy Movement has popularized the populist and near
>> > communist, dogmatic and mechanical vision of equality among men...
>> > for everyone to be mechanically equal, considering that we do not
>> > know yet how to make everyone as smart as the smartest, we shall
>> > apply an intellectual lobotomy to make everyone as dumb as the
>> > dumbest. The majority of not so smart members decides, and it
>> > decides to ignore anything it does not understand without effort.
>> >
>> > As a result, all but the most aware of Pirate Parties are evolving
>> > unstoppably towards IDIOCRACIES.
>> >
>> > And whenever their delegates come together, we get clownesque shows
>> > like the one seen in Prague and in Kazan/Brussels (I was not around
>> > to rate the previous gatherings).
>> >
>> > Believe what you want, call me what you like, shove another chimney
>> > pipe up my ass ;) ...
>> >
>> > ... only the most imperative of real actions can change that trend,
>> > and I do not see it happening from within the Movement.
>> >
>> >
>> > And rules for mailing lists etc. won't  change a thing... you can
>> > not impose rules, whatever rules, upon those that choose not to
>> > understand why they are necessary...
>> >
>> > ... you will only achieve to burn out whatever people have finally
>> > to deal with their enforcement.
>> >
>> >
>> > The only way is to keep out people that do not understand enough. If
>> > not from the society we want to build... at least from the combat
>> > units we try to build it with.
>> >
>> > Nothing can be organised democratically to fight the situation in
>> > our present society... if it is the majority of ignorants that has
>> > to decide what has to be done.
>> >
>> > We are political parties trying to organize a kindergarten where
>> > everybody can be happy if that happens to be the best possible thing
>> > to be got (hopefully not)... not a kindergarten yet.
>> >
>> >
>> > I guess somebody, somewhere, will have to start getting really
>> > serious about the Pirate stuff...
>> >
>> > ... or registering the brand while it has no content worth
>> > preserving will be a futile game.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Antonio.
>> >
>> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:58:57 +0200
>> > From: kenneth at pirata.cat
>> > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some
>> > thoughts for the mailing list
>> >
>> > This is bullshit, moreover when very few people keep on harassing
>> > and insulting anyone not agreeing with them here.
>> > This isn't a swarm, it's a melting pot of activists from parties at
>> > a diferent stage of maturity + a bunch of fools/morons.
>> > So, if this list can't be that swarm, let's start a new and fresh
>> > one (as you suggested in your  swarmwise).
>> > If you want to relly me, add me to cc, as I have just
>> > unsubscribed.It's sad, I've been in this mailing list since 2009,
>> > but right now it's just a piece of shit. This "swarm" is dead.
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> > Kenneth
>> >
>> >
>> > -------- Missatge original --------
>> > De: "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se>
>> > Data: 15/06/2013  14:23  (GMT+01:00)
>> > A: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>> > <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>> > Assumpte: [pp.int.general] Rättning mittåt, sort of: some thoughts
>> > for the mailing list
>> >
>> >
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > Dear colleagues,
>> >
>> > I read the notice of a formal complaint about this channel. It was not
>> > set up to be a moderated channel, nor is it one. Therefore, a formal
>> > complaint is kind of an oxymoron as there are no formal rules to base
>> > a complaint on.
>> >
>> > After all, rules that cannot reasonably be enforced are not rules you
>> > want to have. You cannot keep somebody from posting to an open list,
>> > and openness is a virtue. The alternative would be moderating posts
>> > and/or participants, and that's not who we are; that's not the swarm
>> > way of collaborating.
>> >
>> >
>> > Instead, I'd like to remind everybody about two important principles:
>> >
>> > - - Attention is reward.
>> > - - If you see something you don't like, contribute with something
>> >   you do like.
>> >
>> >
>> > ATTENTION IS REWARD: If you give somebody attention for a behavior,
>> > you will reinforce that behavior, whether the behavior is something
>> > you want to see more or less of. This means that giving attention to
>> > things you dislike is inherently self-defeating, as they will be
>> > nurtured by your attention.
>> >
>> >
>> > IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE, CONTRIBUTE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO
>> > LIKE: This is closely related to the Law of Two Feet. We're a
>> > meritocracy where we're dependent on many people trying many different
>> > things. Leadership with us is not achieved by vote or appointment, but
>> > by taking an initiative and letting others follow that initiative of
>> > their own free will. Disliking an initiative is fine, but criticizing
>> > the initiative from that emotion misses the point - being pioneers, we
>> > must necessarily try many paths, and many of them will be dead ends,
>> > but we don't know that before trying them. The more paths we try, the
>> > more ways of success we'll find. Therefore, the proper response to
>> > seeing somebody walk down a path you don't believe in is to walk down
>> > your own path that you believe more in.
>> >
>> >
>> > (As a final plug, these and many more principles are covered more
>> > in-depth in my book Swarmwise, which covers my leadership experiences
>> > taking the PPSE from nothing into the European Parliament. Five
>> > chapters have been published so far, and you can read them here:
>> >
>> >  
>> http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/
>> >
>> > )
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Rick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > PS: On the rare occasion, I have seen disrespect against fellow
>> > activists on this mailing list, and I never think that's ok. Whether
>> > to call it out or not is a judgment call on a case-by-case basis, but
>> > that will not be done by the mailing list maintainers in that role.
>> > See the two names as technical administrators of the mailing list
>> > server, and not enforcers of any kind of social rules.
>> >
>> >
>> > - --
>> > Rick Falkvinge
>> > Founder of the first Pirate Party
>> > Piratpartiet SE
>> >
>> > @Falkvinge
>> > +46708303600
>> >
>> > Blog, bio and press photos at http://falkvinge.net/photos-bio/
>> >
>> > My mails are always digitally signed. If you get a mail that isn't, it
>> > was not sent by me.
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>> >
>> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG8XLUACgkQ7pnTrWI4jx2N6gCgir2luXwVjBJmicL/9LbwM5fo
>> > yB0AoIAsEPMHXT7oizc1rJ7O2zSA9No0
>> > =+ojY
>> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>


 		 	   		  
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