[pp.int.general] R: R: Pirates and the 5 Star Movement

[Carlito]

Da: Cal.
> 01/03/13 10.06, Zbigniew Łukasiak:
> > Can you please explain this "lack of internal democracy"?
> >
> > I am also curious - how it works, where it fails etc.
> 
> "Grillo" decides it all. That's it.
> 
> Where "Grillo" is Grillo + Casaleggio + their staff (only thing known, they
> exist. who they are? dunno. how many they are? also dunno).

Grillo is the spokesperson of the movement.
Casaleggio is their web marketing consulting company.
"Their staff" are the company's collaborators. 
Very simple.

> They leave decision at local level to the folks, but when someone of them
> tries to say something about it (like "you promised us a direct democracy
> platform" or "here is the platform, we found it. why don't we adopt it?"),

They decided to not implement Liquid Feedback because I personally made a "test" on 100 000 people related to the TV show "Serviio Pubblico". Probably the biggest e-democracy test ever.
We saw that only 10% were able to participate actively. 
So it's very simple: the tool wouldn't permit to participation of all the members of the movement and they decided to develop their own platform integrated in their website/blog very much more user firendly.
I know they are developing a new one even better.

> they suddenly find themselves kicked out of m5s, via a blogpost on
> beppegrillo.it saying they're no longer allowed to use the emblem (which
> grillo owns himself).

The 5 Star Movement has some rules and procedures.
One rule is that you can't go on television shows.
One expulsion happened because a deputy of the Emilia Romagna Region went to a tv show.

Another rule is that you must not be affiliate with other movement and/or old party.
The second expulsion happened because a deputy of a Commune tried to make his own  electoral list changing the logo. 

The best rule is that you can't be elected for more than 2 times. This is great because it guarantees the change. 
One expulsion happened because on deputy tried to candidate himself for the 3rd time.

>> Does it piss you off that someone asks this on this list?
> 
> Carlito and his mercenary behavior piss'd me off a long time ago.

I simply disagree with you.
It's very easy to accept the contradictory.
Just do it.