[pp.int.general] Partido X - Partido del Futuro vs 5 Star Movement

[Dario]

Allow me to add some information.

2013/3/3 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>

> Of course, Eduardo and Dario are absolutely right... looking at Partido X
> from their specific points of view where they are in love with what they
> call Direct Democracy.
>

No reason at all to answer that.


> But the champions of Direct Democracy and Horizontal Asamblearism are the
> 15M / Indignado / Occupy Movement...
>

They had spanish pirates inside before they were known as 15M / Indignados.
Guess from where they got tools like etherpads, mumbles, etc. :) I plead
guilty. I saw firsthand how Democracia Real Ya (the biggest organization of
the movement) was created in a secret Facebook group, with all the internal
fights, changing names and everything else.


> ... and these started as a popular outcry against the sellout of
> politicians
> and union leaders because they were not able to understand why it always
> and invariably had to happen.
>
> At the onset, there were (they are still there) a few very anarchist types
> (the wrong kind of anarchism) that were pushing for a total revolution
> that would overthrow the present constitutional framework and start with a
> tabula rasa a new Constituent Assembly
>

Constituent Assembly movement appeared in 2012, not in 2011.


> that would come up with a new
> democratic charter. What they were unable to understand... is that the ones
> being inconvenienced by the present crisis were mostly middle class
> citizens
> that would never rally behind an anarchist agenda... they value their
> personal safety and private property too much and would rather support a
> fascist outcome.
>

After 15M, several groups (anarchists, communists, socialists,
independentists, etc. You name it) pushed their own agendas inside
Indignados movement, breaking the Mininum Consensus created, discussed and
accepted by almost all local assemblies across Spain


> As they failed miserably in starting their anarchist revolution and had cut
> all bridges towards reformist action from inside the actual political
> structures... they have lost all momentum and are just turning in
> circles...
> ... being almost completely taken over by the left they had tried to leave
> out of the picture for once. A left that has gone to great lengths to
> enlist
> all these people in their proletarian army... because this crisis is their
> chance to get their final proletarian victory.
>

I think you are talking about Izquierda Unida (United Left), am I right?


> Of course... that would lead to the same polarization of 49,5% red people
> against the 49,5% of blue people we have all enjoyed sinse the start of the
> cold war, and neverending exhaustion battles where scorched earth tactics
> warrant us a bright future... no matter who the pyrrhic winner may be.
>
> The only alternative is a politically rational proposition like the one the
> Pirate Parties started, working from inside of the present political
> establishment... that works around the left-right, red-blue divide and
> really works to gather a political 99% around neutral humanist values.
>

> Because once you efficienly argue in favour of humanism as a neutral
> ideology... yo can logically and ethically dismantle both dogmatic
> communism AND dogmatic fascism at the same time... without all the good
> people resisting you without clues because you threathen lo leave them
> ideologically orphaned without a replacement theory to turn to.
>

Humanism as a tag may work outside southern countries. In Spain, France,
Italy, South America, etc. humanist movement is a cult. Main Wikipedia
articles about them are kept "clean" but others point to official reports
and different news:

[0]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_groups_referred_to_as_cults_or_sects_in_government_documents#French_parliamentary_commission_report_.281995.29
[1]
http://elojoenlallaga.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/la-infiltracion-del-partido-secta-movimiento-humanista-en-el-15m/(in
Spanish, they tried to become part of 15M but they were kicked)
[2] http://elpais.com/diario/1986/06/18/espana/519429621_850215.html (in
Spanish, from 1986, when Spanish Humanist Party was part of United Left)

Also, in Spain, to be against dogmatic communism (understood as left-wing)
and dogmatic fascism (understood as right-wing) is contemplated as being
capitalist, because you are not against explicitly, or third positionist
[4], an "ideological mutation of the neo-fascist right" (as said in
Wikipedia), because you are "beyond left and right". I suffered this kind
of judgement so I wouldn't recommend it in some countries.

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

-- 
Dario Castañé
http://www.dario.im | http://twitter.com/im_dario
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