[pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia

Wed Mar 13 15:38:59 CET 2013

Please, stop referring to us. We are not Australia (OP of this thread).

I guess you know everything about CUP (3,48% of votes in last elections), a
more-than-20-years-old grassroots and independentist catalan political
party which ripped off a lot of shared voters between them and us, because
we overlap in vote population/distribution and social networks. We analyzed
it statistically and this is what we found (also we have shared members).

How would you win against a similar (in appearance) grassroots movement
with a 20 times bigger budget (a five-zero figure) than ours, with elected
representatives and majors, lots of activists and resources everywhere and
a current political context* favoring independentists movements?

* For everyone who doesn't live in Catalonia: last September 11th (national
catalan day) we had an independentist demonstration with about one million
people (we are about seven million people). Next year (2014) it is going to
be 300th anniversay of our national day and independentism is very strong
(the second most voted party is independentist - 13,68% of votes).

If you dare to plot a feasible masterplan for that kind of situation,
please, change the subject of this thread to "Here is the masterplan that
catalan pirates should have followed" and answer my mail. If not, don't
waste your time answering any mail, because you won't have a clue, and this
will be my last communication about your constant rant.

Cheers!

2013/3/13 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>

> Thank you.
>
> Now, can you only imagine how everything looks like from a PP-ES point of
> view... and care to explain to our international audience why for Christ's
> sake from a PIRATE point of view the creation of a separate Pirate Party in
> Catalonia, and all the bullshit it has brought to the pirate situation in
> Spain, in Europe and in the rest of the world was so inevitable?
>
> Hopefully, something different than plain Catalan Seny(l) like the one
> that has some independent Catalan Embassies disseminated throughout the
> world, and keeps bullying international sports federations to have
> independent Catalan delegations accepted at mayor sports events.
>
> But you have experienced that blackmailing Pirate General Assemblies
> pays... at least temporally, so why should you not insist in Kazán?
>
> Meanwhile, anyone for which logics and ethics have meaning... are well on
> their way to exile themselves from any instance where they would be forced
> to coexist with the contamination you represent.
>
> Once the intelligent people are gone, of their own free and unbendable
> will...
>
> ... the rest can but collapse, no matter how much time it takes. It's
> called decadence.
>
>
> Dare call yourself a Pirate... and insist.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:30:54 +0100
> From: jordi at soucheiron.cat
>
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia
>
> You're right, in the last elections we didn't perform as well as we'd have
> liked to. But I must disagree with you about the causes of the results of
> the last elections. The main problem we face is not that people know our
> ideals and disagree with them, but the other way round: they don't know
> what we offer as a political party and when they do they mostly agree. What
> we need in order to gain relevance is a huge educational effort, most
> people just think that we only want free downloads from any kind of
> copyrighted content. Fortunately this effort is being done and day by day
> our ideals are starting to be known by the general public.
> On the other hand youre main problem is from another completely different
> nature. You obviously also have the problem stated above (like many other
> pirate parties), but you have a very serious involvement problem. To
> express it in a few words: most individuals that try to make anything
> relevant for your party are demotivated by a very small but influential
> group that sabotages any action that they don't consider appropriate. This
> is causing the gradual dismemberment of the Spanish Pirate Party in a
> Confederation of Pirate Parties that has assimilated all the motivated and
> active individuals that the Spanish Pirate Party has rejected.
> We are a small party, we are well aware of that. But we are already
> working to improve how things work in the local governments where we have a
> seat.
> I would please ask you to abstain writing emails without any kind of
> constructive critique. We are certainly aware of our weaknesses and
> destructive critiques like yours are only a waste of time to many of us
> that don't enjoy from as much free time as you seem to have.
> Sincerely,
> Jordi Soucheiron
>
>
> 2013/3/13 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>
> Please, care to justify to all those, mainly germans, who put all faith in
> you as a way to solve the Spanish conflict, and rolled out the red carpet
> in PPI and PP-EU...
>
> ... why you failed them so miserably in the last regional elections, not
> being able to perform minimally, even with >1.000 members, even in the
> highly concentrated and urban area of Barcelona.
>
> A Barcelona that projects herself as cosmopolitan and geek-minded as
> Berlin, where the German Pirate Party started to perform extremely well
> recently, even if they have lost north these last months.
>
> You do care, or do you have only vaporware on offer?
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: david.arcos at gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:32:30 +0100
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:10 PM, José Manuel Goig <hosemanuelgoc at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> There is a great difference between PP-CAT and PP-ES. PP-CAT can only act
> in the territory of Catalonia but PP-ES can act in all of the territory of
> Spain, including Catalonia. So, in Catalonia both parties could stand for
> election at the same time competing for the same electorate. This is so
> because Catalonia is right now a part of Spain. Whenever Catalonia chooses
> to be a "sovereign state", all this will change and there will be no
> problem.
>
>
> I'm sorry, but that's B.S. You either have no clue about the Spanish
> electoral law, or are trying to intoxicate.
>
> I feel forced to quote some sources (duty calls! <http://xkcd.com/386/>)
>
>
> - Fact 1: in Spain, all the elections have a *regional circunscription*("provincia"), except for the European elections, where the circunscription
> is all Spain.
>
> Source:
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Circunscripciones#Espa.C3.B1a
>
> > España posee *52 circunscripciones* para la elección de diputados de su
> cámara baja: 50 provinciales y 2 pertenecientes a las ciudades de Ceuta y a
> Melilla.
> > En las elecciones al *Parlamento Europeo* España tiene *una única
> circunscripción nacional*.
>
>
>
> - Fact 2: in Spain, the only requirement are (a) providing *full lists*and (b)
> *gathering signatures* ("avales"). Any party (even regional parties) can
> run in all the country (or other regions), provided they have the
> signatures.
>
> Source:
> http://www.portalelectoral.es/content/view/1008/122/
>
> > (...) para poder presentar una *candidatura a las elecciones* al
> Congreso de los Diputados y al Senado, necesitan la firma, al menos, del*0,1 por ciento de los electores
> * inscritos en el censo electoral de la circunscripción por la que
> pretendan su elección.
> > En el caso de las elecciones al *Parlamento Europeo*, el artículo 220.3
> de la LOREG exige para la presentación de candidaturas, como requisito
> común para partidos, federaciones, coaliciones electorales y agrupaciones
> de electores, la acreditación de las* firmas de 15.000 electores*.
>
>
>
> So, legally speaking, PP-CAT:
> - could run for the elections outside Catalan circunscriptions
> - could even run for the full Spain circunscription in the European
> Elections.
> In practice, PP-CAT:
> - could provide lists easily, as it has run in all the elections (4) since
> its creation (2 years ago).
> - getting 15k signatures could be a challenge, but in the past elections
> we got >11k in half the time in just Catalonia (20% of Spain), so it's a
> reasonable assumption..
>
>
> Legally speaking, PP-ES could also run for all the elections.
> But in practice, it has never been able to do so: didn't have enough
> people to make the lists, didn't have enough signatures. (The only
> exceptions have been some brave local groups that could provide lists and
> signatures, without any kind of help from PP-ES board)
> With >1k members, PP-ES could barely gather 1k signatures for the last
> European elections. Right now, with <100 members, do you really believe it
> would be able to gather 15k?
>
>
> Unfortunately, PP-ES is dead. it was killed by a few trolls who got a bit
> of power power, then managed to kick a lot of members, then climbed into
> higher positions, then caused a bigger exodus of members...
> The internal problems in PP-ES have nothing to do with nationalisms, but
> with a pyramidal hierarchy, and the wrong people in the wrong positions.
>
>
> Finally, there it's never been a nationalism issue. Check the Spanish map,
> and the pirate parties on it: http://confederacionpirata.org
> All the Spanish pirate parties in the  'Confederación Pirata' are working
> together on campaings, and are ok with sharing a single vote in PPI.
>
> All the nationalist/anti-catalanist<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catalanism> conspiranoia is
> a ridiculous attempt to divert attemption from the important issue.
>
>
>
> My 2 cents...
>
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> ____________________________________________________
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> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>

-- 
Dario Castañé
http://www.dario.im | http://twitter.com/im_dario
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