[pp.int.general] pp.international.general Digest, Vol 79, Issue 23

Wed Sep 25 17:37:07 CEST 2013

(Falkvinge swarmwise) is a good example, but you need to go back even
further to (Wikinomics: How Mass Collaboration Changes Everything) by Don
Tapscott and Anthony D. Williams :)

2013/9/25 <pp.international.general-request �� lists.pirateweb.net>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: germany election (Charly Pache)
>    2. Re: germany election (Antonio Garcia)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:34:38 +0200
> From: Charly Pache <charly.pache �� gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>         <pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] germany election
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAEpeb+B4qH6pBeg1E7KODgCG6VBVLPM1P6_GFbbGbYbwzEKHvw �� mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I think as well than our movement to be successful do not need a full
> program. Anyway apolitic citizen don't waste their time reading it, full
> program is boring. We need VALUES, PROPOSALS and good AMBASSADORS who get
> involved into campaigns, society projects, even outside politics. The more
> we will do so, the more we will get media attention. Citizen vote for
> people they know, trust and appreciate. And we can't build this so quickly.
> To be good at something, one need about ten years of good clever studying,
> training, trying. And we have to get rid of classic party schemes. We have
> to act as freely connected individuals towards same goals/projects
> (falkvinge swarmwise). The less power concentration inside a party, the
> better we will succeed. Think about it every day ;)
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro �� hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Strange recommendation, coming from one of the least aware Germans :)
> >
> > Always looking at the bright side of illusions.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:42:03 +0200
> > From: squig �� dfpx.de
> >
> > To: pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] germany election
> >
> > 13% of Swedes are considering voting Pirates, that doesn't mean that they
> > will (or that Piratpartiet is at 13% on the polls). It's still awesome,
> but
> > lets keep our feet on the ground.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Francisco George <
> > francisco.george �� gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Don't mess up elections, people don't vote the same for a city council,
> > regional elections or a federal one the reasoning for the vote is
> completly
> > different. In Sweden PiratPartiet is polling at 13% for EU elections, the
> > double than what they got in EU elections in 2008 and a lot more that
> they
> > had in their State elections.
> >
> >
> > 2013/9/24 carlo von lynX <lynX �� pirate.my.buttharp.org>
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 05:28:50PM +0200, Anton Nordenfur wrote:
> > > "if you don't count the people who voted first time" is a horribly big
> > > "if". Don't overanalyse things and try to find the worst in the
> results,
> >
> > considering that at some point in time about a 10% of the german
> > population was willing to give some new folks a chance, it really
> > doesn't matter if we ended up 0.2% above or below the previous
> > result. it's a terrible crash in any case.
> >
> > i spent some time collecting all the criticism and analysis,
> > especially from the press, and looking at possible solutions
> > to the mess.. (in german of course:)
> >     https://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Wahlen/Bund/2013/Analyse
> >
> > i'll translate the rough topics:
> >
> > - promise of digital participation
> >   (failure to introduce a permanent assembly)
> > - discipline & fairness (measures to stop twitter shitstorms
> >   and suboptimal interaction with the press)
> > - networking (ability to mobilize supporters and members)
> > - handling of the nsa scandal situation (journalists didn't
> >   like us bashing the government about it)
> > - better legitimation of the board
> > - sorting out priorities in political issues (hello cal!)
> > - definition of transparency and "social liberal"
> > - communicate parliamentary work getting done
> > - less folklore
> > - strategy concerning faces in public
> > - presence on the streets between elections
> > - dealing with false news stories
> >
> > you may find some of them familiar. note that most of these
> > points were brought up by *outside observers(!)* writing for
> > spiegel, heise and especially golem.
> >
> > the good news is, there are ideas out there to handle each
> > of the problems. all it takes is the political will and
> > consensus to take action soon enough to save our europe
> > 2014 campaign.
> >
> > in fact, if we want to get going on a european scale, the
> > german pirate party must get back on its feet in no time
> > and make positive international press headlines before the
> > year is thru.
> >
> > i firmly believe we can get back on track if the will to
> > learn the lessons from the analysis exists. actually we
> > could take everyone by surprise.
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> > International - General Talk
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> very active citizen @ utilopia.com, pirate party switzerland, ch-open.ch,
> swiss entrepreneurship association, fablab fribourg / freiburg, we are
> change switzerland, bien-ch.ch <http://bien-ch.ch>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:19:10 +0000
> From: Antonio Garcia <ningunotro �� hotmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>         <pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] germany election
> Message-ID: <DUB119-W3486C5C24E94F16F18A489DC2F0 �� phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> That may be a clever comment, Charly, even if debatable.
>
> But do not forget: "To be good at something, one need about ten years of
> good clever studying, training, trying."
>
> I've got almost 30 years of that. The way our movement thinks it can
> work... I will always be outvoted by the careless fools that have gotten
> free reign with their simple numerical majority.
>
> Supported by the foolish careerists like out ?berchief who think they can
> manage foolish crowds to their advantage, damn logic, damn ethic, damn
> values, damn Statutes, and damn stupid fools.
>
> Everyone who did nothing since the staged PPI GA in Kazan/Brussels being
> one of them fools.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:34:38 +0200
> From: charly.pache �� gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] germany election
>
> I think as well than our movement to be successful do not need a full
> program. Anyway apolitic citizen don't waste their time reading it, full
> program is boring. We need VALUES, PROPOSALS and good AMBASSADORS who get
> involved into campaigns, society projects, even outside politics. The more
> we will do so, the more we will get media attention. Citizen vote for
> people they know, trust and appreciate. And we can't build this so quickly.
> To be good at something, one need about ten years of good clever studying,
> training, trying. And we have to get rid of classic party schemes. We have
> to act as freely connected individuals towards same goals/projects
> (falkvinge swarmwise). The less power concentration inside a party, the
> better we will succeed. Think about it every day ;)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro �� hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Strange recommendation, coming from one of the least aware Germans :)
>
> Always looking at the bright side of illusions.
>
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:42:03 +0200
> From: squig �� dfpx.de
>
> To: pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] germany election
>
>
> 13% of Swedes are considering voting Pirates, that doesn't mean that they
> will (or that Piratpartiet is at 13% on the polls). It's still awesome, but
> lets keep our feet on the ground.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Francisco George <
> francisco.george �� gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Don't mess up elections, people don't vote the same for a city council,
> regional elections or a federal one the reasoning for the vote is completly
> different. In Sweden PiratPartiet is polling at 13% for EU elections, the
> double than what they got in EU elections in 2008 and a lot more that they
> had in their State elections.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/9/24 carlo von lynX <lynX �� pirate.my.buttharp.org>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 05:28:50PM +0200, Anton Nordenfur wrote:
>
> > "if you don't count the people who voted first time" is a horribly big
>
> > "if". Don't overanalyse things and try to find the worst in the results,
>
>
>
> considering that at some point in time about a 10% of the german
>
> population was willing to give some new folks a chance, it really
>
> doesn't matter if we ended up 0.2% above or below the previous
>
> result. it's a terrible crash in any case.
>
>
>
> i spent some time collecting all the criticism and analysis,
>
> especially from the press, and looking at possible solutions
>
> to the mess.. (in german of course:)
>
>     https://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Wahlen/Bund/2013/Analyse
>
>
>
> i'll translate the rough topics:
>
>
>
> - promise of digital participation
>
>   (failure to introduce a permanent assembly)
>
> - discipline & fairness (measures to stop twitter shitstorms
>
>   and suboptimal interaction with the press)
>
> - networking (ability to mobilize supporters and members)
>
> - handling of the nsa scandal situation (journalists didn't
>
>   like us bashing the government about it)
>
> - better legitimation of the board
>
> - sorting out priorities in political issues (hello cal!)
>
> - definition of transparency and "social liberal"
>
> - communicate parliamentary work getting done
>
> - less folklore
>
> - strategy concerning faces in public
>
> - presence on the streets between elections
>
> - dealing with false news stories
>
>
>
> you may find some of them familiar. note that most of these
>
> points were brought up by *outside observers(!)* writing for
>
> spiegel, heise and especially golem.
>
>
>
> the good news is, there are ideas out there to handle each
>
> of the problems. all it takes is the political will and
>
> consensus to take action soon enough to save our europe
>
> 2014 campaign.
>
>
>
> in fact, if we want to get going on a european scale, the
>
> german pirate party must get back on its feet in no time
>
> and make positive international press headlines before the
>
> year is thru.
>
>
>
> i firmly believe we can get back on track if the will to
>
> learn the lessons from the analysis exists. actually we
>
> could take everyone by surprise.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
> --
> very active citizen @ utilopia.com, pirate party switzerland, ch-open.ch,
> swiss entrepreneurship association, fablab fribourg / freiburg, we are
> change switzerland, bien-ch.ch
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general �� lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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> ********************************************************
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