[pp.int.general] freedom fight movie

Andrew Norton ktetch at gmail.com
Fri Jan 3 20:07:23 CET 2014

Hash: SHA1

On 1/3/2014 1:04 PM, Jelena Jovanovic wrote:
> I am deeply convinced that only people payed by government and similar
> organisations can sit in PP and wait for opportunity to do damage.Allow
> me to me remind you that title of this thread was freedom fight - and
> torrent was shared....

Aww gawd bless. Anyone else seeing the irony here?
"I think people who attack groups by exposing major issues they have do
so because they're being paid by opposition groups".
It's basically the first attack on every whistleblower, by every group
the whistle has been blown on, like EVER.
Snowdon has been getting it for months, that he was paid by the Chinese,
or paid by the Russians, and doing it to attack the US and he UK.
Remember that? No? here's an example

It's only ever uttered by those who know they're being caught out, and
who are desperately trying to cloud the issues by attacking the source;
or by those who are too proud to admit they've been fooled and their
good intentions put to bad use to be intellectually honest and admit
they've been wrong.

Are you sure you want to continue with this line of personal attack on
me, Jelena?


> bye
> JJ
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Stephen Ogden
> <s.ogden at pirateparty.org.uk <mailto:s.ogden at pirateparty.org.uk>> wrote:
>     Given you should be on the CoA Andrew, were denied your position due
>     to creative counting, and no elected PPI official cares enough for
>     the rules to challenge this, I won't be holding my breath for an
>     appropriate response to this from any PPI official.
>     I am hesitant however to hold any PPI official /wholly/ responsible
>     because the PPI is simply the sum of its parts and its members have
>     allowed it to continue to 'operate' in the manner that it does.
>     The reality is, in my opinion, that PPI is a valuable entity to have
>     in the long term, but that its members cannot (will not?) devote
>     sufficient attention to it in the short term. Until such a time as
>     they do it will continue to function (malfunction?) in the ad hoc,
>     shamelessly amateur, way that it currently does.
>     I hope that sooner or later the constituent members /will/ realise
>     (i) that while PPI can be valuable it currently makes a mockery of
>     what they stand for, and (ii) that they have to put in the resources
>     to reform it (or actually, just make it follow its own rules). It
>     does unfortunately look like PPI will have to hit rock bottom before
>     that happens, and it seems it hasn't hit rock bottom yet - so that's
>     something to look forward to.
>       Stephen Ogden
>       Governor of the Board - Pirate Party UK
>       Pirate Party UK is a political party registered with the Electoral
>     Commission.
>     On 02/01/2014 22:09, Andrew Norton wrote:
>>     Sorry about the delay, I had to check in with some people before I
>>     wrote
>>     this publicly, since it references some people and information I have,
>>     and I wanted to be sure they were all ok with it.
>>     On 12/26/2013 2:24 PM, Jelena Jovanovic wrote:
>>     > FYI
>>     > Andrew Northon is banned from all known pirate pages for
>>     trolling and
>>     > hate speech. Answers bashing out Hammond he received more than once.
>>     Yes, Jelena, the 'hate speech' was that I wasn't going to do free work
>>     for your 'pr company' any more. Or was it the linking to a
>>     screening of
>>     TPB AFK I was hosting, when you linked to the torrent. As you're
>>     'admin'
>>     you can see all the posts you've marked as 'deleted' so seeing my
>>     comment shouldn't be a problem, and you can easily screenshot this
>>     nasty
>>     'trolling' I was doing. If you need help finding it, it was
>>     https://www.facebook.com/ppinternational/posts/710020175691046.
>>     (Running
>>     the TorrentFreak page means I have to delete all kinds of trolling and
>>     spamming all the time, so I know what you can and can't do)
>>     You know I sent screenshots of the incident (including the 'troll')
>>     response to my PPI rep at the PPUK. Ones like this
>>     http://db.tt/EG1KfXOG
>>     Or was it the 'trolling' where I pointed out that the people running
>>     Kazan's elections weren't following their own procedures, and when it
>>     was pointed out that the elections were run improperly, the
>>     response was
>>     'you could have objected at the time and not a month later' Except
>>     I did
>>     ask about the results the next day
>>     (http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2013-April/014107.html)
>>     but it was raised within hours of the results being published
>>     (http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2013-May/014159.html).
>>     So trolling is now 'raising legitimate questions about the
>>     validity and
>>     integrity of elections and their results'?
>>     It seems if your allegations were true, then you should be able to
>>     provide PLENTY of evidence to support this. Except you can't, because
>>     you don't have any. It's just more ooh, *censorship* (although I
>>     loathe
>>     to use the word) against your critics.
>>     But hey, Jelena, it's not like there isn't a load of reporters and
>>     media
>>     on this list, who who note who says what, or that you don't represent
>>     any of the Pirate Ideals.
>>     hey Court Of Arbitration, any chance we can get a look into Jelena's
>>     actions, and how she's acting on behalf of the PPI in an arbitrary and
>>     capricious matter? (I did check the Board meeting minutes, but the
>>     last
>>     one is November 12, so either they've not held a meeting since in
>>     violation of the statutes and their RoP, or they've not bothered with
>>     the basics of minuting them, again a RoP violation as well as one of
>>     basic transparency)
>>     Nevertheless, the actions by Jelena took place in August after a PPI
>>     post about 'sexy PPI admins' was commented upon as her fishing for
>>     compliments (https://db.tt/OBEzfCKM - yes, that's the 'trolling'),
>>     and I
>>     see no mention of that in any minutes, leading me to suspect it was
>>     unilateral action by a supposed representative of PPI for personal
>>     reasons.
>>     We have people doing things in the name of PPI, that are
>>     antithetical to
>>     Pirate Politics. We have had questionable 'elections', arbitrary
>>     actions, and undocumented 'meetings'. It's not the kind of actions we
>>     like to promote, indeed it's the very actions we formed to condemn.
>>     It's probably why another quite senior member for a member party, has
>>     told me "it seems PPI is in the business of trying to make PPI look
>>     functional and mask, rather than fix the issues that are present".
>>     It's
>>     why major issues like the bank accounts still haven't been sorted, or
>>     the rules followed, but but we have to make conferences look good.
>>     Seriously, look over the 'minutes'. There's lots of excuses why major
>>     things don't get done, but lots of boasting about conferences attended
>>     and speeches given (at least by those that can bother turning up).
>>     We again, furiously bang at our keyboards, demanding officials take
>>     account for their actions, and get rid of the useless and ineffective,
>>     and yet we have PPI which has becomes totally unfit for purpose. And
>>     stunts like the WTO are not helping either. In Bali (according to
>>     those
>>     I have spoken to) they did a lot of talking, but when it came to
>>     presenting a paper, it had all the substance of a tweet (if you've not
>>     read it, it's at
>>     http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/minist_e/mc9_e/ngo_ppi_e.pdf).
>>     It is
>>     just a 'hey, this would be a good idea' without substantive
>>     background,
>>     references, data, or information. You could replace it with this tweet
>>     and lose nothing.
>>     "more #copyright thn eva. Try #publiclicenses, would be cool. Thanks
>>     #votepirate"
>>     Of course, the reason is it was mostly done on a pad 12 hours before.
>>     gotta love planning, considering there were 2 weeks notice at least.
>>     So here's the thing. Don't go telling everyone else you're pirates, if
>>     you're only a pirate when it comes to others. Otherwise you're
>>     just like
>>     the law enforcement that looks the other way when another cop
>>     breaks the
>>     law. Mainly because when you break your own rules and principles (and
>>     PPI has done that over and over) then you end up losing any
>>     justification to criticize those that have done the same.
>>     I also wonder what sort of reception/opinion those PPI officers would
>>     have for whistleblowers, if it were them the whistle was being
>>     blown on.
>>     I'd guess they wouldn't be too fond then. I know I don't have anything
>>     to fear from them, for instance, because I always follow the rules. I
>>     may annoy people, certainly, but in every case, it's always because I
>>     follow the rules and principles of the Pirate wheel, and look for long
>>     term gains, rather than a short-term goal. People that have a problem
>>     with that, might want to ask themselves "are you sure you're a
>>     pirate?"
>>     Andrew
>>     > Keep up with your "activism", Northon.
>>     > On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Antonio Garcia
>>     <ningunotro at hotmail.com <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>>     > <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com> <mailto:ningunotro at hotmail.com>>
>>     wrote:
>>     >     > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 01:31:12 -0500
>>     >     > From: ktetch at gmail.com <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>
>>     <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com> <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>
>>     >     > To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     >     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     >     > Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] freedom fight movie
>>     >     >
>>     >     > Be ignorant, be foolish all you want. But do so in your
>>     own name,
>>     >     don't
>>     >     > drag me and everyone else down by trying to make that
>>     guttersnipe seem
>>     >     > hard done by, especially with all the harm he's done our cause
>>     >     > politically. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
>>     Hammond was
>>     >     never a
>>     >     > friend of the Pirates, we were just a means for him to try
>>     and get
>>     >     more
>>     >     > followers. And if you think otherwise, then you never met
>>     Hammond, or
>>     >     > are too busy lying to yourself to be objective.
>>     >     >
>>     >     > TL;DR
>>     >     > Hammond is not a hero, never was, and any attempt to
>>     portray him
>>     >     as such
>>     >     > will only ever backfire on us.
>>     >     >
>>     >     > Andrew
>>     >     After Prague 2012 misbehaviour and the whole plot to keep its
>>     >     consequences out of sight in Kazan/Brussels 2013... if
>>     anyone thinks
>>     >     we need anything stupid additional to drag the whole pirate
>>     movement
>>     >     down to plain nothingness then he is just a playing kiddy.
>>     >     Someone ThinkTwice :(.
>>     >     ____________________________________________________
>>     >     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>     >     pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     >     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>>     >    
>>     http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

- -- 
Andrew Norton
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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