[pp.int.general] Recent events involving PPI

Andrew Norton ktetch at gmail.com
Fri Mar 6 21:05:17 CET 2015

Hash: SHA1

On 3/6/2015 3:38 AM, Gregory Engels wrote:
> How convenient, that you do not mention anything that can distort the
> image that you try to create here. (And you can not even mention a
> correction (PPI do have a working bank account) without spreading FUD
> again!) 

I'm sorry Gregory, but as we all know, pretty much everything here is
what shall be henceforth called 'a gregoryism' - a term meaning
"complete bullshit where facts are made up to fit a desire"

Also, had you read said article, you'd note that they marked that bit as
incorrect, AND linked to a separate containing a correction. Should it
just be wiped out entirely because of one error?

> You do not mention 
> - the planned oGA for the December 2014 that was canceled as only two
> parties (PP-CH and PP-DE) have turned, and there was clearly a lack of
> any interest from other PPI members

Only two parties turned up for the online GA? Hmm, guess I missed that.
Oh, wait you mean a discusson meeting about *possibly* holding one? And
actually, only ONE party turned up, PP-CH (I'll get to why PP-DE didn't
in a moment). Perhaps another source of the low turnout is the method.
Mumble's hard to have a great meeting on at the best of times. When the
majority are not native speakers of the language of the meeting, it gets
INCREDIBLY poor. By your own admissions, you are not the best at
English. Why would anyone volunteer to put themselves through such a

> - the inactivity of Masa and the declaration of vacancy for her seat
How is that relevant? It's classic deflection. Masa quit, BLAME MASA!
Very "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

> - the following "counter" by Koen for calling the CoA to rule on Thomas
> Gaul and me regarding the personal email (that's begins with the words
> "dear Andrew") on how we could be not following our free will, those
> resulting in Thomas abstain in every motion until the CoA would declare
> the case

Ok, the point here is that of statutes. The statutes state,
unambiguously, "The members of the Board shall consider the interests of
the Pirate movement as a whole and shall neither consider themselves,
nor be considered, as representing any particular Member or non-member
Organization or region."

It doesn't matter if the email was a personal missive, or not. In fact,
if that were a prime factor, I guess we should ignore all the Snowdon
documents then? they are after all, directed as 'not us'?

The fact is that the statement made in that email directly highlights
the fact that you and Thomas are in violation of the statutes. Thomas
has said publicly "statutes must be obeyed". Is this the case only
unless it involves you or Thomas, because you're above them?

Another example is the meeting two points above I said I'd get to. You
state "only two parties (PP-CH and PP-DE) have turned", but the minutes
(https://ppi.piratenpad.de/oGA-20141026) show:

* Thomas Gaul (PPI)
* Gregory Engels (PPI / PP-DE)

So in official minutes you are considering yourself representing a
particular member, directly in contravention of the statutes.

It happens elsewhere too. Thomas's Twitter profile describes himself as
"Pirate Party of Germany (International Coordinator) - Pirate Parties
International (CAO) - thomas dot gaul at piratenpartei dot de -
Kassenprüfer Bund"
(screenshot https://db.tt/6qL3nHxo)

Yours says "Board Member Pirate Parties International; Fraktions und
Parteivorsitzender Piraten Offenbach."
(source https://db.tt/jFOS8U7w)
Unless my German is worse than I think it is, that seems like it
describes Faction and chairman of Offenbach pirates?
A role supported by your own PPDE wiki entry
(updated, by you, on Sunday)

It is, as we call it, direct evidence that you have, time and again,
violated the statutes.

Thus your violation of the statute is not in question. You have openly
acknowledged violating it in meeting record,s Thomas openly boats of it
on Twitter, and PP-DE has confirmed that it's a deliberate decision. So
it's no longer a matter of 'if', but of punishment, which rests, in case
you'd forgotten, with the CoA. (Statute XIVa(3)(d) - The Court of
Arbitration has the exclusive power to... decide on the restrictions on
persons who breach the Statutes and the internal regulations and in
these cases degrade an official or declare his further incapability to
be elected,)

Or, again, are you trying to tell us that the statutes do not apply to
you or Thomas, that you are above them and not subject to their
accountability? Or is that more "bias" from "enemies of the PPI"? But
then, rules don't apply to you, as you showed in your 2012 PPI
candidacy, when having been told your time was up, you just shouted over
the chair of the event and carried on

> - also in the attempt from Koen and Brendan to discredit the alternate
> board member Marco, who stepped up to fill the vacant seat in the board,
> resulting in him also abstaining every motion.

Discredit, no. I understand that you might think that the inability for
you to get your way is aggravating to you, but their point was a good
one - there does not appear to be a provision for an alternate to become
a co-chair. Thus it's perfectly correct that the CoA should be queried
as that's it's role

(3) In particular, the Court of Arbitration has the exclusive power to
a) issue a preliminary ruling in an urgent matter of its competence,
b) declare matters of fact when necessary for the functioning of the PPI,
c) decide the disputes between the officers and the organs of the PPI,
d) decide on the restrictions on persons who breach the Statutes and the
internal regulations and in these cases degrade an official or declare
his further incapability to be elected,
e) decide on the validity of legal acts of the organs of the PPI,

This query seems to be covered by A, B, C, and E (E since it would
require a change to the PPHQ documentation
That's 4 separate aspects where the CoA has "the exclusive power" to
decide, not you.

> That two latest developments have lead to the proposed proceedings for
> the oGA have failed. The outcry of PP-AU and PP-BE chairs about it is
> hypocritical since they architected this outcome in the first place. 

Er, no. EVERYONE on here is well aware of the actual timeline. They're
aware that the first attempt (mentioned by you above) was a half-hearted
attempt to try and shoehorn an already terrible physical meeting
practice into mumble making it worse.
The second was 'architected' how? Did they hold a meeting and decide
they didn't like how it was going, ignore the board's rules of
procedure, and cancel the second attempt while it was mid-swing?

The only way they could have "architected this outcome" was if the idea
of an open, independently run GA with time for open discussion and
secure independently verifiable voting, and time for party consultation
was somehow a problem, which could be solved by a rushed event where one
group gets to decide what gets voted on, who gets to vote, and with
little/no debate. S'funny, because I thought the Pirate movement was
about going to the former FROM that latter, not the other way around.

I think these facts speak for themselves.

> On 05.03.2015, at 00:52, Josef Ohlsson Collentine
> <international at piratpartiet.se <mailto:international at piratpartiet.se>>
> wrote:
>> Hi Pirates,
>> there's a lot going on around PPI right now so I just wanted to share
>> a collection of links for anyone that wants to read up on some of the
>> things that has happened in 2015. This is how recent events have
>> played out and been portrayed in articles at Pirate Times. The events
>> have been placed in a logical time-line.
>> -----
>> PPI can't collect fees after CoA
>> decision http://piratetimes.net/ppi-board-cannot-collect-fees/
>> PPI takes help from PPAU to fix this during an extra-ordinary online
>> GA http://piratetimes.net/ppi-board-and-ppau-to-conduct-online-general-assembly/
>> Brendan (from PPAU) writes about this being the last chance for PPI to
>> reform http://piratetimes.net/this-is-our-last-chance-to-reform-ppi/
>> The vote, allowing PPAU to help PPI arrange the extra-ordinary GA, was
>> declared invalid. New voting didn't pass which caused PPI to disband
>> the current work done and create a new version of an extra-ordinary
>> assembly in its place without assistance from PPAU
>> http://piratetimes.net/online-ga-back-on-as-parties-leave-ppi-poll/
>> A clarification that PPI does have a functioning bank account and some
>> of the problems associated with this new account mentioned in comments
>> on the article http://piratetimes.net/correction-ppi-has-a-bank-account/
>> PPAU leaves PPI http://piratetimes.net/the-australian-pirates-leave-ppi/
>> PPI board responds on PPAU
>> leaving http://piratetimes.net/ppi-board-responds-to-ppau-membership-termination/
>> PPUK leaves
>> PPI http://piratetimes.net/ppuk-bids-farewell-to-ppi-guest-post/
>> PPBE suspends their membership (very similar to leaving apart from not
>> formally decided
>> yet) http://piratetimes.net/ppbe-suspends-their-ppi-membership/
>> Kindly,
>> Josef
>> *International Contact for PPSE*
>> Contact me for any questions/concerns or if you need to get hold of
>> someone in Piratpartiet or internationally.
>> /Other contact:/
>> mail: international at piratpartiet.se <mailto:international at piratpartiet.se>
>> Twitter: @collentine
>> Skype: josef.ohlsson.collentine (only important conversations)
>> Cel: +46 73 824 98 49 (text me, if urgent)
>> Public key: CD039BE3
>> <http://pgp.surfnet.nl/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9585E800CD039BE3> (only
>> encrypted files, mail is not safe)
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

- -- 
Andrew Norton
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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