[pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually do something?

Sun Mar 15 19:31:01 CET 2015

Well that wiki is mostly abandoned. I only linked to the codex -
because it is quite popular.

There is now a new initiative for a pirate communication platform:
http://pirateint.org/

Cheers,
Zbigniew

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Thomas Blechschmidt
<thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de> wrote:
> I'm sorry,
>
> I don't see any significant interest for my thoughts on this platform.
>
> Writing something down just to fill storage in the wiki does not make sense.
>
> I quit.
>
> Have a god time
>
> Thomas Blechschmidt
>
>
>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
>>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im Auftrag von
>>Zbigniew Lukasiak
>>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 22:25
>>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually
>>do something?
>>
>>Identity and shared values/culture - this is the corner stone for any
>>movement - agreed.
>>There is some work already done in this area - see for example
>>http://blog.pirates-without-borders.org/pirate-codex/ - this is of course
>>very little, but mention it for the record.
>>
>>I don't think that we could invent a shared culture - it will grow when we do
>>stuff together - and reflect upon this. This needs to be done in parallel -
>>do things together and build shared values - because it is the actions that
>>give the concrete material to attach our thinking to, to reflect upon - and
>>the thinking will give us ways to improve our actions.
>>
>>This probably is material for a whole new discussion thread.
>>
>>Z.
>>
>>
>>On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Thomas Blechschmidt
>><thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de> wrote:
>>> OK, Markus,
>>>
>>> THX for that answer. I pick that up, because in my eyes it shows, that
>>> we have a problem in common:
>>>
>>> We are focused on topics. That is a fact in Germania as well as in Bavaria.
>>> Why is that a problem?
>>>
>>> Because topics are Challenges and not solutions. So, if a heterogenic
>>> group of persons take care about a political topic and they do not
>>> have a at least pretty similar interpretation of political items,
>>> values, philosophies, or let us say the basics, and they bring in the
>>> political culture and the socially programmed behavior of their
>>> personality, that means they all will work on the same topic with
>>> different methods and will expect everybody else to do that in the same
>>way.
>>>
>>> Will that work? I doubt it.
>>>
>>> And here I see the first issue for PPi to do. Create a common identity
>>> among international pirates. Kick out anything, what does not have a
>>> significant acceptance. Take care that tools are not going to be
>>> rotten by personal conflicts.
>>>
>>> The personal affectivity of any member in a political group, willing
>>> to make a change, is absolutely not of interest. The challenge is to
>>> run into a hard work process to find out, what the members have in
>>> common and to take consequences, if one realizes, that he does not fit
>>> in the group or the group does not fit for him.
>>>
>>> The missionary attitude to persuade other people about one's own
>>> ideology is a dead end. It leads to nowhere. In the best case it
>>> brings up the idea to turn around and set one's own ideology on the
>>> street to find an new, common ideology among pirates.
>>>
>>> The error begins, when ideology becomes dogmatic. To do everything by
>>> a certain "Book of rules" shows the mentality of a follower. It is one
>>> thing to neglect leadership and to live a pretty anarchic political
>>> life, but the consequence is, that there will be no evolution.
>>> Followers don't walk straight ahead and don't lead people. The secret
>>> ist, to balance out leadership with obeying without blaming followers or
>>leaders.
>>>
>>> What I tried to make clear: Before we go to take care about political
>>> topics, we should find out, which emotional, intellectual,
>>> philosophical and political basics we share. Because that is, what
>>> unites us. Common topics don't do that.
>>>
>>> Take an example on Varoufakis blog about his interpretation of his
>>> selfdescription as radical and abnormous Marxist. And crosscheck the
>>> reaction on this especially on German language blogs. If Varoufakis is
>>> a Marxist, I'm the pope. Really.
>>>
>>> But he shows a reflection on Marxism, not even similar to Marxism. He
>>> really locates the basic political issues "Liberty" (as a value) and
>>"rationality"
>>> (as criteria for legitimacy) in Marxism and the Marxism itself as
>>> ideology of the political "Leftists". That makes me think, that he
>>> either does not know, that "Liberty" as a value is the central basic
>>> value of Liberalism, expressed an well articulated in John Lockes
>>> oeuvre and "rationality" as criteria for legitimacy is central item of
>>> the "époque of enlightenment", when Rousseau and Descartes described
>>> their view of a democratic society, Newton, Lasalle, Hume and Voltaire
>>> worked on their scientific and poetic fields to explain the world
>>> besides simple believing in God and his creativity.
>>>
>>> I wonder whether we find that common ideological basis. The experience
>>> here in Bavaria and Germany shows, that it is not possible to form a
>>> powerful and creative movement just along common topics. Especially we
>>> pirates should be aware, that topics are no intellectual property.
>>> Because we know. That intellectual property in reality does not exist.
>>> The only thing, that might have a right to exist, is that the
>>> developer of an idea benefits from it during his lifetime. And this
>>> only can rely on settled law. After his death, this right extinct.
>>> There is no reason for prolongation, neither for his children nor for any
>>company.
>>>
>>> OK, enough for today. Let's see, if something comes out of this. As
>>> pirates we can create a international movement, and we can create a
>>> international party as well. With direct, physical members. We do not
>>> have to arrange an organization according to national laws just
>>> because no international parliament exists.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im
>>>>Auftrag von thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>>>>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 16:49
>>>>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>>>>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and
>>>>actually do something?
>>>>
>>>>There are quite a number of topics on which we should collaborate
>>>>internationally, I'd say.
>>>>
>>>>For example, in the dutch pirate a group recently started working on
>>>>finance/economy monetary systems (fiat systems, cryptocurrencies, gold
>>>>standard etc). I would not be surprised if other pirate parties have
>>>>or had similar groups. A lot of things on this topic are global (IMF,
>>>>global banks) or at least in the EU europe-wide (ECB).
>>>>
>>>>To my mind an obvious purpose of PPI would be to link up these sort of
>>>>national groups. At the very least they can share one another's
>>>>research and opinion to advance their own. And a bit of international
>>>>feedback to one another would help heaps in keeping the national
>>>>groups active and moving on.
>>>>
>>>>The parallel national re-invention of the wheel is one of the things
>>>>where PPI has a role to play.
>>>>____________________________________________________
>>>>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Zbigniew Lukasiak
>>http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
>>http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
>>____________________________________________________
>>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

-- 
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/