<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">----- Mensaje original ----<br>De: Jan Huwald <jh@sotun.de><br>Enviado: miércoles, 6 de febrero, 2008 9:29:54<br>> If
you
refer
to
a
Matroshka:
yes
and
no.
Cyberbase
is
built
upon
(=within) the
"pyhsical
world"
illusion,
but
the<br>> Cyberspace
illusion
will
decouple
from that
grounding
in
the
long
run
(I
differ
here
between
cyberspace
and<br>> cyberspace
illusion!). and
thus<br>> Because
of
their
highly
differing
realities
I
am
sure
we
need
special
laws
for the
Internet
(or
at
least
special
treatment<br>> within
the
laws).
Of
course
this does
not
touch
basic
rights
but
should
focus
on
the
"implementation
details"<br>> of
the
law
system.<br><br>In PIRATA <a href="http://www.partidopirata.es/wiki/Statute/En#Article_2:_Scope_and_goals"><span style="font-weight: bold;">we believe</span></a> that citizens should "<span style="font-style: italic;">have the same rights and freedoms inside and outside the Internet</span>", as <span style="font-weight: bold;">we think that there are no differing realities</span>; actually that kind of argument -supposedly differing realities, i.e., difficulty in preventing paedofilia, terrorism and other crimes within internet- is widely used by mass media to try to justify the promotion of harsh Internet laws, like censorship & surveillance & others. We have right to privacy, we have freedom of speech, we have right to life, we have right to physical and moral integrity, freedom of ideology, religion and worship, right to be free and safe, right to assembly, right of association, right to obtain effective protection from judges and courts of
justice ... these and other rights and freedoms both inside and outside the cyberspace so ¿why do we need different laws depending on the environment, if actual laws already rule those rights and freedoms?<br><br>As an example, Spanish LISI law is actually trying to regulate Internet -cyberspace- by defining legal concepts not only already treated in current laws, but also more restrictive and freedom-eroding than current laws' ones; they try to allow administrative -i.e. public offices and public office dependant organisms- entities to be legally entitled to shutdown web pages, in the name of health, antiterrorist, antipaedofilic, national security and other kind of <span style="font-style: italic;">reasons</span>. Fortunately Spanish Constitution explicitly forbid such legal behaviour as only courts of justice can perform such activities -though in PIRATA we believe, as <a
href="http://www.partidopirata.es/blog/comunicado-de-la-junta-directiva-nacional-de-pirata-en-relacion-con-el-secuestro-del-numero-1573-de-la-revista-el-jueves/"><span style="font-weight: bold;">we stated </span><span style="font-style: italic;">(in Spanish)</span></a> when a court seized <a href="http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2007/07/20/1184937587_g_0.jpg"><span style="font-weight: bold;">this cartoon of Prince Felipe and his wife</span></a>, even that judicial seizure is not the right way of punishing abuses of freedom of speech, because we think that "<span style="font-style: italic;">the best way to fight media-related crimes is not informative silence nor censorship, but to adding to the actual punishment -it would may be increased- the public exposure of the shame, to allow the crime serving as counterexample; hiding the crime deeply only contributes to feed morbid feelings and to turn reproachable -when criminal- contents
into myth</span>", so we think seizure wouldn't be allowed at all-.<br><br>If that attempts of overregulating the cyberspace were not allowed, current laws would be enough to preserve our rights and freedoms and rule of the law wouldn't have becomed compromised -as some people who don't understand (outside PPI, at least in Spain) the cyberspace use to answer when noticed about LISI "<span style="font-style: italic;">who cares? it's only the Internet, while they don't seizure conventional media ...</span>" without understanding that such overregulation with time will lead -in the name of harmonization- to an overall seizure & censorship scenario, as with time most citizens will be frequent Internet users and will become habited to censorship. It's just one reason to be willing to avoid considering mere environments as separated realities.<br><br>> Not
only
bcause
of
that
cyberspace
differs,
but
also
because:<br><br>Leaving apart the fact that such supposed difference has not been proved -not at least within this mail thread-<br><br>> *
(physical)
space
vanishs<br>> *
link
distance
and
attention
wil
become
new
distance
metrics<br>> *
space
is
(almost)
unbound<br>> *
human
control
of
objects
(=stuff
in
physical
space,
information
in cyberspace)
decreases<br>> *
secret,
untrackable
communication
is
possible<br>> *
building
new
layers
of
social
and
technical
mechanisms
upon
older
ones
in possible
with
increasing
speed
(creating
a<br>> new
quality
of
complexity explosion)<br>> *
many
many
more
(complicated)
reasons<br><br>Great for us if privacy can be enhanced in cyberspace compared with physical environment, though does it changes law applicability? rights and freedoms regulation? We have the same right to privacy inside and outside cyberspace, it's just that it's easier for us to preserve that privacy within the cyberspace that outside it, just it.<br><br>I think it's being mistaken the power and applications of a tool -Internet is, I think, a tool of Information Society, not a universe in itself (because we, the citizens, are the ones who form the Information Society; Internet communication tools only define its specific characteristics)- with the concept of that tool as a separate universe. When telephone network was created it supposed a revolution in communications -as you've said about Internet, <span style="font-style: italic;">it allowed the building of new layers of social and technical mechanisms upon older ones in possible with increasing speed
(creating a new quality of complexity explosion)</span>-; so what? does it make <span style="font-style: italic;">phonespace</span> a separate universe not fully related with the physical one? it's all about people, I think we should never forget it; I think we should never overestimate tools because they're important only as long as they're being used by people to shape and transform the society where people live.<br><br>And most important thing from my viewpoint: <span style="font-weight: bold;">we shouldn't overregulate Internet and cyberspace</span> by defining special laws for it -which would mean that we would have duplicity of laws, the common ones for the <span style="font-style: italic;">physical</span> environment and the extra laws to specifically regulate the same rights and freedoms though only in the cyberspace environment- ... <span style="font-weight: bold;">if required, maybe even should be underregulated, then triggering that
underregulation the same underregulation in the</span> <span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">physical</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"> environment</span>, as all these troubles come from excessive regulation. I mean, public offices create laws to regulate and control, not only in cyberspace -think of Data Retention directive, which uses mobile antennas to geolocate where do we are at every time-, where do we are, who do we talk with, even if it's allowed to sing and even whistle a copyrighted song in a public park; <span style="font-weight: bold;">rights and freedoms have to be preserved and laws -together with law enforcement</span>, because without it laws are just literary papers- <span style="font-weight: bold;">are useful for that goal, but I believe that such idea is being perverted for the good of those who try controlling our lifes, so I think we should allow that legal duplicity nor general
overregulation.</span><br><br>This is one of main reasons for us in PIRATA to believe that rights and freedoms must remain the same outside and inside the cyberspace -thus not considering both environments as differing realities, but as mere separated environments of the same reality-.<br><br>> >
In
short:
law
must
come
from
ethics,
society,
human
rights,
not
from
code.<br>> Misunderstanding!
Code
is
law.
Law
does
not
come
from
code
(in
terms
of
being derived).<br><br>> >
Code
has
to
be
adopted
from
the
principles
of
ethics
society
and
human
rights,
too.
Not
the
other
way
round.<br>
> Definitely!
But
instead
of
relying
on
the
ethic
=>
law
=>
code
Chain
we
should shortcut
ethic
=>
code.
If
you
look
at<br>
> privacy
problems
in
private
companys it
is
obivous
that
waiting
for
law
to
regulate
code
is
harmful.<br>
<br>To be able to answer this ... what do you exactly mean with <span style="font-style: italic;">code</span> and <span style="font-style: italic;">law</span>? <span style="font-style: italic;">code</span> as informatic code and <span style="font-style: italic;">law</span> as legal texts?<br><br>> One
paragraph
to
the
code-issue:
we
are
currently
involved
in
a
major
shift
of power.
Parliaments
power
decreases<br>> (again)
and
the
power
of
those
creating the
new
spaces
increases.
The
vehicle
of
that
transformation
is
code
(like <br>> steam,
water
&
mechanic
wheels
have
been
vehicles
of
the
industrial transformation).
If
we
choose
to
ignore
code
then<br>> we
invest
our
power
in
a shrinking
business.
I
urge
that
we
follow
a
hybrid
approach
and
create
code to
shape<br>> (cyber-)reality
and
gain
power
within
that
transformation. Especially
it
is
our
duty
to
use
our
technical
skills
to
reduce<br>> the desastrous
consequences
of
surveillance
society
to
the
political
system
and public
debate
or
it
might
become
to<br>> late
for
us
to
gain
power
in
parliament.<br><br>> If
one
objects
now,
that
I
argued
that
parliament
is
powerless
in
the
long run:
yes
I
did.
I
did
so,
because
I
am
sure
that<br>> _re_creating
democracy
needs code!<br><br>It happens the same as previously with the <span style="font-style: italic;">code-issue</span>: I got myself lost. What do you mean with <span style="font-style: italic;">create code to shape (cyber-)reality</span>? Regards<br><br><br> Carlos
Ayala<br> ( Aiarakoa )<br><br>
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<br></div></div><br>
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