<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">----- Mensaje original ----<br>De: Anton Tamminen <anton.tamminen@piraattipuolue.fi><br>Enviado: lunes, 30 de junio, 2008 13:59:24<br>> This EP group topic is apparently a matter that requires more elaborate discussion, perhaps not very suitable for this<br>> mailing list. It is good that people reacted on this, because it shows that there is disagreement we need to work on.<br><br>Of course there are. And not only in the EP topic, as you may check in my former mails, or the one from Häggström.<br><br>> Amelia and Carlos both have points albeit from different perspectives which to me seem geo-political<br><br>I rather think that the succedaneous thing is universal: if there are two parties A and B, and B starts
copying everything from A and supporting everything from A ... finally most B voters will change their minds and start voting A instead -others would vote a third party or even quit voting-, because they'd find out that giving their vote to B, only for B to give as well that vote to A, would mean the same than giving the vote directly to A.<br><br>> and I think this discussion can't continue in a constructive manner until we evaluate the technicialities of the European<br>> Parliament in a more elaborate way, preferably in a larger group, as well as consider the differences between the<br>> national politics in different countries. During the conference, I was surprised of the multitude of such differences<br>> within the EU.<br><br>I think that we should recover the manifesto process ... this time participating representatives from all pirate parties, in order to develop a text suitable for all of us. As you say, finding our common stances
in the most controversial issues requires more elaborated ways, and it's not something to be solved during a weekend.<br><br>> My impression is that Swedish national politics work differently than for eg. Finnish or Spanish, so we need to consider<br>> things from a broader perspective.<br><br>Actually Swedish politics are different from Finnish or Spanish ... though the succedaneous thing fits the same for all of us.<br><br>> About the other propositions to the document that were presented: During the conference, I tried to retain a more<br>> deletionist than inclusionist stance, to make sure the document would not be in conflict with possible local issues and<br>> interpretations, and I think most of us followed the same rule.<br><br>Abstraction is the key to include as many points as possible, when different stances on a concrete issues share enough common points despite the differences; however, it's only possible through an
elaborated process as you described before.<br><br>> Although I am uncertain of the exact motives of the Swedish Pirate Party on this 'declaration', I personally don't think it<br>> should be given that much weight. I view it as a means of getting media attention, at most<br><br>Huh ... thus this 'declaration' is an unilateral initiative from Swedish Piratpartiet? Regards,<br><br><br> Carlos
Ayala<br> ( Aiarakoa )<br><br> Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<br></div></div><br>
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