<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Before further commenting, of course there is no problem in attending ESF. The problem may be what would the attendants do there -specially if they act <span style="font-style: italic;">in the name</span> (?) <span style="font-style: italic;">of PPI</span>-:<br><br>----- Mensaje original ----<br>De: Amelia Andersdotter <teirdes@gmail.com><br>Enviado: martes, 1 de julio, 2008 1:39:37<br>> Initially, if I should happen to forget anything, or if there are any questions, feel free to ask.<br><br>Thanks, let's go with the questions<br><br>> ESF is a pan-European visionary forum for global movements.<br><br>> So who comes there? ESF has a wide variety of participants. They could probably be considered leftist<br><br><a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Bov%C3%A9"><span style="font-weight: bold;">José Bové</span></a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Livingstone"><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">Red</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"> Ken Livingston</span></a>, <a style="font-weight: bold;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ben_Bella">Ben Bella</a> ... come on, Amelia, don't be shy: definitely leftist :) No problem about that, simply let's gonna call things by their name.<br><br>> The idea is that people (not parliamentarian politicians) can meet and spawn ideas for how to make the world a better<br>> place.<br><br>There won't be any party there? Cannot believe it; green parties, communist parties, won't attend? Apart from anarchist groups which undoubtably will attend -not parliamentarian but of course politicians-.<br><br>> So the unique Pirate Parties can not participate, which is why the _network_ of
international Pirate Parties are. As a<br>> network, we're an interest group.<br><br>And who is gonna attend representing PPI? Which agenda will those people bring there?<br><br>> As parties, we are politicians. The benefit for the Pirate Parties is that the forum is based on dissent about trade<br>> treaties we too probably do not like (TRIPS, for instance).<br><br>Please give more examples, because most of issues to be treated in an ESF meeting are outside PPI's core issues ... as long as you still give value to stick only to core issues.<br><br>> Also, this is a good opportunity for PPI to show a united, visionary movement to several tens of thousands of social<br>> activists from all over Europe. All the previous ESF:s have attracted approximately 70-100'000 participants<br><br>To show PPI as an united, visionary movement, please remove first things from Uppsala Declaration like "<span style="font-style: italic;">Once elected, we will
discuss with the <span style="font-weight: bold;">groups that could be of interest</span>, to determine which group is closest to us, and <span style="font-weight: bold;">join that group</span>. </span><span style="font-style: italic;">Inside the group, we will <span style="font-weight: bold;">do our utmost to persuade the other members of the group to join our position</span> on the issues that fall within our political platform. <span style="font-weight: bold;">In return</span>, <span style="font-weight: bold;">we´ll</span> listen to the advice of the group on all other issues, and <span style="font-weight: bold;">vote with the group</span> unless we have some strong reasons not to</span>", because at least not all of PPI members do agree with such nonsense.<br><br>If you understand that as a <span style="font-style: italic;">visionary</span> stance, the only thing that you'll envision is a dark future, as dark as Gaspar Llamazares' -the man who
<span style="font-style: italic;">led</span> the Spanish United Left from 9 MPs to 2 in only 8 years due to his vassal policies obeying Spanish Socialist Party-. I repeat, <span style="font-weight: bold;">who is pretending to attend the ESF <span style="font-style: italic;">representing</span> PPI, and which agenda is pretending to defend <span style="font-style: italic;">in the name of</span> PPI</span>?<br><br>> I am currently hoping that we will be able to co-operate with a few Hungarians (their proposal was Cyberdemocracy)<br>> and the Greens (whose proposal for seminar was file-sharing)<br><br>So, while you despise liquid democracy for non-core issues -you just defend to surrender to a current parliamentary group in non-core issues, and to submit civic groups to that group instead of us hearing them-, are you talking about cyberdemocracy? If you were seriously talking about it, you would give a chance to citizens' initiatives, to social
grids, etc; however, you in Piratpartiet have already decided to disallow cyberdemocracy and do whatever the puppetmaster commands. Cyberdemocracy is a very well-sounding word, but please don't use it in vain if you don't really believe in it.<br><br>Also, when Marten Fjallstrom stated in Uppsala Declaration about parliamentary "<span style="font-style: italic;">groups that could be of interest</span>", considering that there are only seven in the Europarliament, that doesn't seem PPE the favourite one, and regarding how sympathetically you talk about ESF and Greens ... <span style="font-weight: bold;">may I have to guess that you, Piratpartiet, are willing to merge with </span><a style="font-weight: bold;" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_United_Left%E2%80%93Nordic_Green_Left">NGL-GUE</a><span style="font-weight: bold;"> (Nordic Left/United Left, communist & socialist) or </span><a style="font-weight: bold;"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Greens%E2%80%93European_Free_Alliance">EG-EFA</a><span style="font-weight: bold;"> (Greens/nationalist)</span>? Because in your last mail you openly talked about merge with one group -a notion we definitely reject-, and now you dedicate these words to ESF, I don't know what else to think about this -being only 7 parliamentary groups, there aren't quite much options, so my error margin is not so wide-.<br><br>You, Piratpartiet, are free to merge, unmerge, flip-flop your ideological scope, etc ... but <span style="font-weight: bold;">be careful when talking about PPI because, regardless of how many members does Piratpartiet have, within PPI is only one of PPI members</span> -together with Deutsches Piraten Partei, Piraten Partei Osterreichs, Piraatti Puolue, PIRATA, Parti Pirate, Piraten Partij, Partia Piratow, the danish pirate party ... and never forget Russian & American pirate parties-. So if you are
willing to impose PPI the idea of merging with one of actual seven <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_groups_of_the_European_Parliament"><span style="font-weight: bold;">EU parliamentary groups</span></a> without the consent of PPI members, forget about it; and if you are willing to represent PPI in without agreeing first the agenda to be defended in ESF together with the rest of PPI members, forget about it.<br><br>No mavericks, nor tricksters, nor tyrants are required when trying to change politics -because there are plenty of them in traditional politics, so we are not pretending to be another brick in such wall-.
Regards,<br><br><br> Carlos
Ayala<br> ( Aiarakoa )<br><br> Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<br></div></div><br>
<hr size=1><br><font face="Verdana" size="-2">Enviado desde <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=52431/*http://es.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html">Correo Yahoo!</a><br>La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.<br></font></body></html>