<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">----- Mensaje original ----<br>
De: aloa5 <piratenpartei@t-online.de><br>
Enviado: viernes, 4 de julio, 2008 7:54:37<br>
> Hello Anton,<br>
><br>
> there are more options. I think your options are polarising (and point 2 is not written down in the declaration). ;)<br><br>Also, point 1 shown by Anton is wrong, as it exclude other options and present a ... bizarre one -not dealing anymore with anyone- as if it were the real one. Not being in a coalition is totally different from not negotiating with that or other groups, issue by issue.<br><br>
> Lets have a look about the different points here and if we can have a consens. :)<br>
> <br>
> As far as I can see we have this two sides of a coin on wich is written "politic" on it:<br>
><br>
> * The scandinavian Pirates think that we have to built a coalition with a/the/any gouvernment party anyway to get<br>
> might. The "costs" for this can be really high. They assume that the might they would have with 1, 2 3 seats in EU or<br>
> national parliaments would imply enough might for changing something.<br>
><br>
> The spanish Pirates think the other way around that we never go into a coalition this way.<br><br>
Let me specify that not being in a coalition doesn't disallow to
negotiate issue by issue; simply, it disallows to unconditionally
support another party.<br><br>
> I will offer following points for finding a compromise or a working plattform:<br>
><br>
> 1.) Coalitions (as an option) have to be possible <br>
> 2.) If the price for a coalition (compromises to be made) is reasonable will be a decision of the PP members in each<br>
> country.<br>
> 3.) We have do decide *after* an election<br><br>While I appreciate your consenssus efforts :) the thing with that approach is that, instead of being a compact
movement, we would may find -e.g., with 8 MPs from 4 countries (not
enough to have our own parliamentary group)- 2 MPs from country A
having joint greens, 2 MPs from country B having joint communists, 2
MPs from country C having joint 'liberals', and 2 MPs from country D
-namely, Spain- staying in non-inscrits; it wouldn't look quite much
like a international pirate movement, but a bunch of MPs each one following an own way.<br><br>> And - to come across the point 2 you (Anton) below mentioned - I would like to ask the skandinavian Pirates <br>> something.<br>> <br>> The same argumentation can be used for every separate country to legitimate any coalition -- and promising (any)<br>> coalitions before an election.<br><br>Actually what Uppsala Declaration encourages: promising that a coalition would be held anyway.
Regards,<br><br><br> Carlos
Ayala<br> ( Aiarakoa )<br><br> Partido Pirata National Board's
Chairman<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><br><br></span>P.S.: As I said in my former mail, I agree on what we stated last night, about focusing on the
Manifesto thing instead continuing this argue -as I think each one's
stances are pretty clear-. 5 pirate parties out of 12 have already
filled in <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance"><span style="font-weight: bold;">this wiki page</span></a> their sections -<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piraattipuolue"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Piraatti Puolue</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#The_Pirate_Party_of_the_United_States"><span style="font-weight: bold;">PPUS</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Partido_Pirata"><span style="font-weight: bold;">PIRATA</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piratenpartij_Nederland"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Piraten Partij</span></a> and <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Danish_pirate_party"><span style="font-weight: bold;">the Danish pirate party</span></a>-.<br><br>P.P.S.: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piratpartiet"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Piratpartiet</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Parti_Pirate"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Parti Pirate</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Partia_Pirat.C3.B3w"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Partia Piratow</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Russian_Pirate_Party"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Piraten Partai</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piratenpartei_Deutschland"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Deutsches
Piraten Partei</span></a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Piratenpartei_.C3.96sterreichs"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Piraten Partei Oesterreichs</span></a>
and Australian Pirate Party have to yet. Common, the quicker we do it,
the quicker we'll be able to start developing the Pirate Manifesto's
First Draft :)<br></div></div><br>
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