<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">----- Mensaje original ----<br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">De: Ole Husgaard <pirat@sparre.dk><br>Enviado: martes, 26 de agosto, 2008 23:26:03<br>Max Lalouschek | Piratenpartei Österreichs skrev:<br>> > I want to make clear, that although we can't always guarantee for somebody being present on the manifesto<br>> > meeting, the Manifesto itself has our utmost support.<br>> I don't support the manifesto as such yet (it isn't there yet, so there is nothing to support), but I fully support<br>> the discussions we have about it.<br><br><a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_First_Draft"><span style="font-weight: bold;">First Draft</span></a> is not ready yet,
though there is time till the end of next Sunday to have it done. I've put the <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance#Common_stances"><span style="font-weight: bold;">common stances</span></a> on it, though it needs heavy editing to fulfill <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto#What"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Manifesto's requirements</span></a> set at Berlin. Also, though we already have the common stances, I don't want to be the only one writing the Draft; a cooperative edition may ensure maximum agreement and, thus, minimum need for amendments; otherwise, an unipersonal edition may lead to just one viewpoint thus increasing the need for amendments, in order to polish the text. So, cooperation from all representatives is needed.<br><br>By the way, when you say that you don't support the manifesto as such, what do you mean? don't you support what it means? how has it been driven? its contents -if
are the contents the thing you don't support, which part?-? As you were cooperating with First Draft development since the first sessions, it would be helpful to know which is exactly your problem regarding the Manifesto, in order to solve it; as long as you are willing to solve it. <br><br>And I believe you are willing to solve it, as you've just said Stallman "<span style="font-style: italic;">what you suggest here should IMHO be part of the Pirate Manifesto we are currently working on</span>" -by the way, <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_First_Draft#About_Author.27s_Rights"><span style="font-weight: bold;">it's actually part of First Draft</span></a>-; also you were attending on a regular basis to the First Draft sessions since the first one. So, I hope you actively participate in the First Draft edition.<br><br>> These discussions are really useful: They help to clear up any differences we have, and this is important for
us.<br><br>Of course they are, though not just to clear up differences, but also -and mainly- to have the Manifesto done; because, in order to have a Manifesto, declaring what we all are was required to know what we have in common -and there are most things, as sessions have proved-.<br><br>> Even if this Manifesto process fails to give a formal final result, it will be useful to us.<br><br>Why should it fail, if we succeeded in finding out what do we have in common? To have First Draft ready as soon as possible, you're up to cooperate in the First Draft edition -using the common stances as a basis-; and later, any kind of modification that any of the parties would be willing to do to First Draft can be done through the amendments -according to the rules we set some sessions ago-.<br><br>That is: if we all do want to have the Manifesto done, it will be done because our will is a powerful thing; now it's time to show that will.<br><br>> > After
all the effort put into the whole task by Carlos, which I appreciate much, it was a mistake to question<br>> > the manifesto resp. saying that it shouldn't have a priority.<br>> Carlos definitely put a lot of work into this. IMHO it is only good to ask questions, but unfortunately this time<br>> the questions were answered by flames.<br><br>I think I've misunderstood you: which thing is only good to ask questions?<br><br>Also, if you're stating that this statement from Rick: "<span style="font-style: italic;">I must ask what the purpose of the manifesto currently driven by Carlos is</span> [...] <span style="font-style: italic;">there was originally a manifesto intended as a common platform for the European Parliament election</span> [...] <span style="font-style: italic;">we created such a document at the <span style="font-weight: bold;">Uppsala conference, a conference which <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Spain declined</span>
sending delegates to</span></span> [...] <span style="font-style: italic;">the <span style="font-weight: bold;">Uppsala Declaration fulfilled all the stated goals</span></span> [...] <span style="font-style: italic;">so what is the purpose of <span style="font-weight: bold;">the ongoing work</span>, particularly as I see a lack of interest and buy-in (not the least including <span style="font-weight: bold;">a lack of interest from my own organization, pp.se</span>, the reasons for which I just explained)?</span>" is not a flaming one, then definitely we disagree on what kind of comments do cause flames.
Regards,<br><br><br> Carlos Ayala<br> ( Aiarakoa )<br><br>
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<br></div></div></div><br>__________________________________________________<br>Correo Yahoo!<br>Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! <br>Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es </body></html>