A warning has been given and Max keeps on beating the dead horse.<br><br>I suggest a temporary ban/mute.<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Max Moritz Sievers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:m.sievers@piratenpartei-hessen.de">m.sievers@piratenpartei-hessen.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Ray Jenson wrote:<br>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Gagis wrote:<br>
> > If we start taking official stances on every issue from knitting<br>
> > patterns to nuclear warfare we will never succeed.<br>
> ><br>
> > Keep it simple.<br>
><br>
> Keep a complex issue simple... got it.<br>
><br>
> No, I refuse to keep such a complex issue simple (since the reason<br>
> it's so complex to begin with is people not wanting to take the entire<br>
> picture into account). I understand the need, but if you simplify too<br>
> much, you end up overcomplicating the situation.<br>
<br>
Complex things happend, right. But if the U.S. government commited a treason<br>
to its people and a fraud to everybody, this is a simple conclusion and a<br>
truth to be told.<br>
<br>
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Max Moritz Sievers wrote:<br>
> >> My demands to a MP are firstly that they don't commit treason on the<br>
> >> people. Some incompetency is less harmfull than having the enemy ruling<br>
> >> the country. I'm not thinking of Valentin here but of 9/11. See<br>
> >> <a href="http://911research.wtc7.net/" target="_blank">http://911research.wtc7.net/</a> and<br>
> >> <a href="http://www.journalof911studies.com/" target="_blank">http://www.journalof911studies.com/</a> for more information. I want you to<br>
> >> draw your attention especially to<br>
> >><br>
> >> Werther: A Half-Dozen Questions About 9/11 They Don't Want You to Ask<br>
> >> <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html" target="_blank">http://www.counterpunch.org/werther02182006.html</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> and<br>
> >><br>
> >> John Doraemi: My Letter to Obama<br>
> >> <a href="http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-letter-to-obama.html" target="_blank">http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-letter-to-obama.html</a><br>
><br>
> These are all written by what we call here in the USA "conspiracy<br>
> nuts".<br>
<br>
These are carefully selected websites not written by nuts. You wrote:<br>
<br>
| Our chief adversaries use fear and guilt on a regular basis to drive their<br>
| campaigns.<br>
<br>
Why do you preclude your government produced 9/11?<br>
<br>
Twentieth Century Precedents for 9/11/01<br>
<a href="http://www.911review.com/precedent/century/" target="_blank">http://www.911review.com/precedent/century/</a><br>
<br>
1990s Precedents for 9/11/01<br>
<a href="http://www.911review.com/precedent/decade/" target="_blank">http://www.911review.com/precedent/decade/</a><br>
<br>
> You can spot a cover-up (which there most certainly was surrounding 9/11),<br>
> but you also must understand the nature of what is being covered up.<br>
<br>
*I* do understand the nature of what is being covered up.<br>
<br>
> If we spend all of our time looking at what someone else is doing, we miss<br>
> the entire point of what our conspiracy is about.<br>
<br>
No, why should we? We state that the official story of 9/11 is a lie and we<br>
demand that the erroneous decisions based on the lie will be corrected.<br>
<br>
| And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't<br>
| there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you<br>
| had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have<br>
| censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting<br>
| your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there<br>
| are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable,<br>
| but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only<br>
| look into a mirror.<br>
-- V in V for Vendetta, <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes</a><br>
<br>
> In the case of 9/11, the real conspiracy is what the government did<br>
> during the attacks--not before, and (for the most part) not after,<br>
> either. Most of what the government was doing before and after is<br>
> public knowledge or unrelated. The real questions were successfully<br>
> covered by Michael Moore, rather than uncovered.<br>
<br>
Michael Moore works for THEM.<br>
<br>
> But even today, there are conspiracy theorists who claim it was a missile<br>
> that exceeded the speed of sound and exploded and that there was no<br>
> evidence of a plane there (in spite of the Time Magazine and CNN<br>
> photos to the contrary, both of which were shot by photographers who<br>
> witnessed the plane).<br>
<br>
These conspiracy theorist are agents from the other side. It doesn't matter<br>
what hit the Pentagon. These are details which should delude you to get the<br>
big picture. We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.<br>
<br>
But if you still want to know about this detail, read:<br>
<a href="http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/" target="_blank">http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/</a><br>
<br>
> Funny how nobody talks about the assassination attempt against Bush on<br>
> 9/11... yet it was reported. Even back then, I guess nobody really<br>
> cared.<br>
<br>
Again: We have to understand the nature of what is being covered up.<br>
<br>
Cover Stories of the People in Charge:<br>
<a href="http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/bush.html" target="_blank">http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/bush.html</a><br>
<br>
> >> PPUS recommended Obama for president. But 9/11 is an important topic for<br>
> >> every nation and every Pirate Party. As we discuss how to save oil there<br>
> >> is done exercise of power in a whole other level. If we accept the<br>
> >> official conspiracy theory, we can't achieve the change we want.<br>
><br>
> The topic of 9/11 should be laid to rest. It was a long time ago, and<br>
> while important, it should be history, and not present. We shouldn't<br>
> live there.<br>
<br>
To understand where we are now, we need to know what has gone before. This in<br>
turn will help us to understand what's coming next. In my opinion,<br>
clarification of 9/11 is very important in this regard.<br>
<br>
> Advocating privacy is a worthwhile goal. It is not, however, the only<br>
> goal we have as a party. It is merely one of the goals that we all<br>
> have. The flip side of this is the idea that surveillance decreases<br>
> crime by increasing the chances that someone gets caught.<br>
<br>
The goal of politics should be that criminals get caught but that there are<br>
minimal law violators.<br>
<br>
| It spells poverty and crime. To alleviate that poverty we build homes of<br>
| charity, poorhouses, free hospitals, all of which you support with your<br>
| taxes. To prevent crime and to punish the criminals it is again you who have<br>
| to support police, detectives, State forces, judges, lawyers, prisons,<br>
| keepers. Can you imagine anything more senseless and impractical? The<br>
| legislatures pass laws, the judges interpret them, the various officials<br>
| execute them, the police track and arrest the criminal, and finally the<br>
| prison warden gets him into custody. Numerous persons and institutions are<br>
| busy keeping the jobless man from stealing and punish him if he tries to.<br>
| Then he is provided with the means of existence, the lack of which had made<br>
| him break the law in the first place. After a shorter or longer term he is<br>
| turned loose. If he fails to get work he begins the same round of theft,<br>
| arrest, trial, and imprisonment all over again.<br>
|<br>
| This is a rough but typical illustration of the stupid character of our<br>
| system; stupid and inefficient. Law and government support that system.<br>
-- Alexander Berkman: Now and After: The ABC of Communist Anarchism<br>
<<a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Now_and_After:_The_ABC_of_Communist_Anarchism/Chapter_21" target="_blank">http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Now_and_After:_The_ABC_of_Communist_Anarchism/Chapter_21</a>><br>
<br>
> Criminal statistics should bear this out, if true, though it will take<br>
> statistics for a minimum of 10 years from the instigation of<br>
> surveillance in order to warrant the result. There is likely a brief<br>
> lull in criminal activity that picked up again 5-7 years later (the<br>
> length of the human psyche's cycles, which are dependent upon the<br>
> person and so this number is a generalization).<br>
<br>
You mean in the monitored places.<br>
<br>
> Until we actually have such statistics, surveillance will be a<br>
> difficult battle to win. However, we can force concessions by making<br>
> stronger laws to protect the privacy of individuals, especially those<br>
> who are found to be targets of hatred within society.<br>
<br>
No, we need to abolish laws.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
regards<br>
Max Moritz Sievers<br>
<br>
| It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits:<br>
| freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either.<br>
-- Mark Twain<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>David Arcos Sebastián<br><a href="http://davidarcos.net">http://davidarcos.net</a><br>