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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>I did not blame anybody for
incorrect propositions on human rights issues. The connection between human
rights and copyright (etc.) is a complicated, technical-legal issue.
Well, we are not all lawyers, so - again - I don't blame anybody. But I do
emphasise that there are in law, and this field in particular, no 100% truths,
if only because rights are often conflicting. Even the "right to life" is
relative: if someone threatens to kill me, and I really have not
alternative,I am allowed to kill the person who threatens me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>There is a stream in
literature that defends (broad) copyright on a philosophy that
equates "intellectual property" more or less to real property
(eventually based on the philosphy of Locke). Needless to say that the PP
movement disagrees with such ideas. But that does not mean that PP strives
to violate human rights, even though (interested!) people will argue it does, if
not on the level of positive law, then at least on a moral level. These are the
people who equate infringement to theft. Well, fortunately there also an
abundance of (professional) liteature that explains why this is definitely
wrong. Another comment to be made is that overly strict views on copyright may
well violate the "freedom of information" human right (which is - as you al know
- not limited to "freedom of speech" but incudes freedom to *receive*
information).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>BUT should a political
movement like PP really be overly concerned with law? The purpose of politics is
(democratic control of) lawmaking. Not the other way round! Otherwise, a "loop"
would result. Well, perhaps that is a fair description if present copyright
lawmaking - but PP is on earth to change that! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Groeten, Grüße, Regards, Cordialement, Hälsningar, Ciao, Saygilar,
Üdvözlettel, Pozdrowienia, Kumusta, Adios, Oan't sjen, Ave, Doei, Yassou,
Yoroshiku, Slán, Vinarliga, Kćr Kveđja<BR>>>> REINIER B. BAKELS PhD
LL.M. MSc<BR>private: Johan Willem Frisostraat 149, 2713 CC Zoetermeer, The
Netherlands telephone: +31 79 316 3126, GSM ("Handy") +31 6 4988 6490, fax
+31 79 316 7221</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=aiarakoa@yahoo.es href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">Carlos Ayala
Vargas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net
href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">Pirate Parties
International -- General Talk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pp.int.general] where is
the manifesto?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Before proceeding to this mail, people will reasonably complain
about our quarrel being developed in this mailing list. Thus, as you have
already stated that you dislike current Pirate Manifesto drafts, you also have
already accused us of some things and I have already denied your accusations,
I think it would be better to continue this -if there were any need of
continue this- privately, don't you agree? Otherwise, we would be flooding PPI
list with a disagreeable quarrel.<BR><BR>Reinier Bakels wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>you referred to the UN document containing unusual
ideas, and, yes, some of the PP ideas would be in conflict with those ideas:
not recognising "unlimited" rights for authors because they are authors. the
idea to allow retroactive changes in rights already assigned (or recognised)
clearly violates the ECHR, if done without a proper
compensation.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><B>Who</B> has the idea to allow
retroactive changes in rights already assigned? Sadly, you continue with that
stuff ... the UN paper talks about <B><A
href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retrogressive">retrogressive</A>,
nor <A
href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retroactive">retroactive</A></B>.
Retrogressive ... at the end, all this quarrel just because of you misread me
and misread the UN paper?<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:004401c96679$3923e720$6400a8c0@RBB2007 type="cite">
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>another comment to be made is that you should not
be so nervous about "violating human rights"</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not
nervous, but <B>offended</B> by you stating that Pirate Manifesto drafts ...
even UN papers! aim to violate human rights. It's ridiculous, and now I see
that all is just due to you misreading me and UN. I repeat what I said in my
former mail: please, prior to launch such false accusations, first ask people,
and read
carefully.<BR><BR><BR>
Carlos
Ayala<BR>
( Aiarakoa )<BR><BR>
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman
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<P></P>____________________________________________________<BR>Pirate Parties
International - General
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