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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>in my perception there is
no human rights issue at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>you referred to the UN
document containing unusual ideas, and, yes, some of the PP ideas would be in
conflict with those ideas: not recognising "unlimited" rights for authors
because they are authors. the idea to allow retroactive changes in rights
already assigned (or recognised) clearly violates the ECHR, if done without a
proper compensation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>another comment to be made
is that you should not be so nervous about "violating human rights". no human
right is absolute. for the simple reason that human rights are often
conflicting. the ECHR has found an excellent solution to deal with that: it
contains explicit provisions on the conditions for *not* respecting specific
human rights.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>of course i am not accusing
you of (proposing to) violating human rights. i only note that you clearly
don't have been trained as a lawyer. do you really need such a training?
well, your reaction demonstrates that you do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>frankly, my conclusion is
that it virtually impossible to cooperate with you. last spring we alredy tried
to cooperate on a joint response to a european consultation on levies - and
then also you made a lot of noise - but in the end i had to write the response
with my friends from vrijschrift (a dutch organisation). it was a missed
opportunity to provide a eu-wide response from pp-int.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>all of these problems are
very complicated, so at least we should trust each others expertise.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Groeten, Grüße, Regards, Cordialement, Hälsningar, Ciao, Saygilar,
Üdvözlettel, Pozdrowienia, Kumusta, Adios, Oan't sjen, Ave, Doei, Yassou,
Yoroshiku, Slán, Vinarliga, Kćr Kveđja<BR>>>> REINIER B. BAKELS PhD
LL.M. MSc<BR>private: Johan Willem Frisostraat 149, 2713 CC Zoetermeer, The
Netherlands telephone: +31 79 316 3126, GSM ("Handy") +31 6 4988 6490, fax
+31 79 316 7221</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=aiarakoa@yahoo.es href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">Carlos Ayala
Vargas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net
href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">Pirate Parties
International -- General Talk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 25, 2008 10:44
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pp.int.general] where is
the manifesto?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Reinier Bakels wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:025001c9660b$4aeb2e50$6400a8c0@RBB2007 type="cite">
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Hi Carlos,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Sorry to say, but I am really surprised by the
way you talk to me.</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:025001c9660b$4aeb2e50$6400a8c0@RBB2007 type="cite">
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>I like informal communication, but I urge you to
observe basic principles of politeness. Happy Christmas!
<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>There were two ways of dealing this
issue:<BR><BR>- you could have asked me, or any of the people participating in
the Manifesto development, about:<BR>* whether the rule of the law, and
specifically irretroactivity of prejudicial changes, was going to be violated
by PPI (obviously, no)<BR>* where did I got the arguments to state that
<I>intellectual pro...whatever</I> is not a human right -while author's rights
actually are-<BR>* etc<BR><BR>- or you could have accused us of being
violating human rights, being indecent, PPI being doomed,
etc<BR><BR>Unfortunately, you chose the second way. So I don't think that
you're the most suitable person to talk about politeness; I mean, don't you
agree on such accusations -specially that of being violating human rights- are
unacceptable and not polite at all? Next time, prior to making such false
accusations, ask
first.<BR><BR><BR>
Carlos
Ayala<BR>
( Aiarakoa )<BR><BR>
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<BR><BR>P.S.: "<I>To some extent
<B>you have to</B> trust me -and, perhaps more importantly, the logic of what
I contend</I>"<BR><BR>I <I>have to</I>? Forcibly? Not a chance:<BR><BR>-
because of the unacceptable accusations of your former mails<BR>- because you
didn't simply disagree with some -few or many- issues of UN analysis, but you
stated about a United Nations paper "<I>I am not sure about its
authority</I>"<BR><BR>If you are going to discredit the authority of the
United Nations -the organism who developed and approved UDHR- and nonsensical
and falsely accuse us of such bold things, don't be surprised if I don't trust
you for free; I need arguments, otherwise I cannot trust you.<BR><BR>P.P.S.:
And if you are willing to quote great men, let's talk about Thomas Jefferson
-if US Founding Fathers stated that "<I>no man can be deprived of life,
liberty and property without due process of law</I>", I hope you don't accuse
him too of being violating anything concerning private property-: "<I>he who
receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine;
as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me</I>"
-i.e., he who receives an intellectual work from me, receives it without
taking it away from me; thus, intellectual works are not appropriable, so
cannot be considered as property-. If you search for more recent sources,
check stances of many libertarians -probably the highest supporters of private
property (I talk about libertarians as sources because I'm tired of that
<I>you're attacking private property</I> thing)- on intellectual works (<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_Kinsella">Kinsella</A>, <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_T._Long">Long</A>, etc) to check
that yours is not the only way of thinking about this issue.<BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>____________________________________________________<BR>Pirate Parties
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