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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=aiarakoa@yahoo.es href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">Carlos Ayala
Vargas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net
href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">Pirate Parties
International -- General Talk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:13
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pp.int.general] where is
the manifesto?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Prior to replying you: why do you have to turn your mail into the
<I>Rainbow warrior</I>? I mean, please don't use so many colours in a single
mail, it hurts my eyes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>There was black and blue,
and I added red. If you (or your eyes) get upset because of a third color
(or actually a second, other than black), I really wonder what is going
on. </FONT><BR><BR>Reinier Bakels wrote: </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><FONT
color=#ff0000><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000>If you are prepared
to accept the risk of an <STRONG>extension</STRONG> of "intellectual
property rights" e.g. copyright, and very tough enforcement measures, yes,
there is no risk in advocating human
rights.</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>The lobbies actual and falsely advocate human rights to justify their
liberticide measures; are you willing to allow them to do it? If not, I think
you should advocate human rights while proving they abuse and falsely
interprete human rights.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>It is not 100% sure that
your interpretation is right and the others are wrong ... besides, politics
does not always follows the lines of logic. My estimate is that there is a
substantial risk that the human rights argument is used to strengthen both the
contents and the enforcement of "intellectual propeerty", i,.e, to achieve
exactly the opposite from PP objectives. This is based on my perception on the
way the human rights argument is used <EM>today</EM> in this
context. </FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><FONT
color=#ff0000><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000>Again, the DRD was
defended with the argument that it <STRONG>supports</STRONG> human rights
(e.g. of the authors, and the potential victims of terrorism), perhaps at
the expense of privacy, but who cares? Please note these are not my
arguments, but still arguments accepted in politics by a majority.
</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>They can say whatever they want; they can say <I>we are massaging you</I>
while they beat you, or <I>we are supporting human rights</I> while violating
them -they did in Spain with the implementation of 2000/31/EC, allowing
censorship without prior court ruling (against Spanish Constitution)-. Our
duty is to prove they lie; it is part of our opposition tasks.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>Again, the substance of
human rights considerations in this context is by no means unambiguous. They
will juxtapose their "truth" with your "truth". In my view, in such a
situation it is easier to defend rights directly than to follow the risky
detour via human rights. </FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
color=#000000><BIG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><BIG>Two aspects: 1.
If you choose a certain emphasis, you can't do other
things.</BIG></FONT></BIG></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>False. If I become a MP, I won't be a MP just to attend one issue of the
set of core issues, during an entire term! Me, and the rest of pirate who
eventual and hypothetically would nail seats at the parliaments, would fight
to achieve all goals, making as many as possible.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>It is good to be
ambitious. But it is usually helpful to set priorities. Of course your energy
(or the energy of whoever other PP parliament member) is infinite. But you
should also take the "processing power" of the outside world in consideration.
Doing too much may confuse your voters. </FONT><BR><BR><B>If I
become a MP</B>, I won't aim for a 5 % <B>of the platform of the party where I
belong</B>, or for a 15 %, or for a 20 % -of course I won't aim <FONT
color=#000000>against that platform-; <B>I'll work for 100 %</B>, and time and
dealing skills will determine the final % of achieved goals.<BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
color=#000000><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>So you better choose to
address problems that you realistically can resolve in the
foreseeable future. Copyright and patent term reductions require
cumbersome international negotiations. The present political mood is
to strengthen rather than weaken copyright
etc.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#000000>Thus, we have
to work in order to avoid that and revert the tide, haven't we? Precisely due
to lobbies trying to enlenghten the abuse, we have to work, first, to stop the
enlengthening, and at the same time, to revert it.<BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
color=#ff0000><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=2>The US
imposes "TRIPS plus" conditions in bilateral treaties to many (developing)
nations. The deal is easier access to the world market for (conventional)
goods. But even if the political "weather forecast" would be more
favourable, such a process would take many years.
</FONT><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I'm a young man at my 28 years; how many years do you have in mind?
<B>Politics are a set of short, middle & long-term efforts</B>; we a<FONT
color=#000000>re not going to give up on them just because you state "<I>they
cannot be achieved prior to the end of the current
term</I>".</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
color=#000000><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>Again,
priorities, in conjunction with long-term visions, are helpful. Note however
that you will be faced by people saying: if you try to change TRIPS (in a
direction of less protection), then you are simply naive ... and then you
better be prepared to answer that question, because it is a pretty logical
question. </FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:BF39CCF37E24467DA531CE652C8B2FBA@RBB2008 type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=2>Well, some of the reforms I
propose can even be made in court.</FONT><FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:4121EEB0A62C49EB89531C3294BCC3BC@RBB2008
type="cite"><FONT color=#000000>- is the list long
enough?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Not for pirate parties, in the light of our
several ideologies and national platforms.<BR><BR></FONT><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#000000 size=2>Then add something to the
list.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I did: reducing term & scope of commercial rights, allowing non
commercial filesharing, etc; and that's concerning author's rights ... as we
saw last summer <A
href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_parties_at_a_glance">there
are other core issues for pirate parties</A>, Reinier; you're not going to
take such issues away from our platforms.<BR><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>Oh no, I did not mean to say that the list was
exhaustive, and I wasserious when I invited you to add more
items.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>reinier</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>