I think this discussion is not a constructive one for PP (or PPI like you want).<br><br>Please use private mail to do that, not on the mailing list. Some of us don't read anymore the mails sent throw the ML because of that kind of discussion.<br>
<br>Sorry for my english which is not perfect, this is one of the reason why it is difficult to read "all" the mails ......<br><br>Keep on mid that a clear debate, without animosity will be more important for each one of us than that.<br>
<br>Florian Lauté from "Parti Pirate Français" (PPFR)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/1/5 Carlos Ayala Vargas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">aiarakoa@yahoo.es</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">Reinier Bakels wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
1. I don't think a private conversation was appropriate. I always talked about the substance - even if you sometimes thought I did not. If I say "you are wrong", than I don't mean that I blame you for making a mistake, but that I have a different view (wich could be a fact or an opinion).<br>
</blockquote></div>
And, /of course/, if you make contradictions -like calling me /fifthcolumnist/ and PPI /fundamentalist/ at the same time-, or plain insults -like /stupid/-, or other defamations -like /radical/-, you would just have been /creative/ in your descriptions. Haven't you been? Come on.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
2. My "denial" is essential. Being insulting or scornful requires the *intent* to do so (or at least "dolus eventualis" - I don't know the term in English), and if I say that it is NOT my intent, *you have to accept that as a fact*.<br>
</blockquote>
That would require me trusting your statement. If you /apologize/ in one mail while, in the same mail, continue calling /radicals/ all those who doesn't give up in demanding our goals -by the way, you considered our goals as /esoteric/! (your mail: 4-XII-09, 10:14)-, believe me: I don't trust your excuses.<div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Even when I called you a "fifth column" at some time, that was about your opinions.<br>
A "fifth column" - as you know - is some who works for the "ennemy". Which was perfectly appropriate<br>
</blockquote></div>
Me, working for the pro-copyright lobby? Your excuses cannot be trustable when you continue defamating me again, and again. Can anyone find serious to say in the same mail "/and if I say that it is NOT my intent/ (to insult me)/, *you have to accept that as a fact*/", and "/even when I called you a 'fifth column'/ [...] */was perfectly appropriate/*". I'm not here to be insulted, moderate yourself.<div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
And, frankly, my patience is not infinite.<br>
</blockquote></div>
I have no doubt on that; actually I find it quite finite -from the first mails you have used that stuff I wholeheartedly reject-.<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
This morning I tried another shock effect, calling you "amusing". *Should I use even stronger words* to clarify my point?<br>
</blockquote></div>
What is this? Do you even dare to open & publicly menace me with further insults? This is new. Hope that insulting in this PPI list cannot be for free. So now, Reinier, just debate within the limits of politeness; nobody prevents you from debating, simply I won't tolerate that stuff from you.<div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<br>
<br>
Carlos Ayala<br>
( Aiarakoa )<br>
<br>
Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman<br>
<br>
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