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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>It is simple: in my opinion
there is a very urgent need to address the "jihad" of record companies and other
greedy copyright owners(*). From some of the mail we exchange, I get the
impression that the PP movement has not the kind of hands-on mentality that
is imho badly needed to counter the persistent FUD campaigns for copyright
enforcement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>Then the conclusion is
obvious: leave the PP to the philosophers and look for alternatives for
*real* political action.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>Of course I hope that I am
mistaken and that PP eventually also has the ambition to hands-on
action.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>(*) For those of you who
understand Dutch: recently there was again a very unpleasant "FUD" article in a
major Dutch newspaper, an interview vwith the director of an organisation that
promnotes criminal prosecution of copyright infringers: "If it is free, it is
illegal": <A
href="http://www.volkskrant.nl/multimedia/article1120882.ece/Is_het_gratis_Dan_is_het_niet_legaal"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"
size=3>http://www.volkskrant.nl/multimedia/article1120882.ece/Is_het_gratis_Dan_is_het_niet_legaal</FONT></A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=coretx@gmail.com href="mailto:coretx@gmail.com">Core TX</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=aiarakoa@yahoo.es
href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">Carlos Ayala Vargas</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net
href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</A>
; <A title=r.bakels@pr.unimaas.nl href="mailto:r.bakels@pr.unimaas.nl">Reinier
Bakels</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 16, 2009 3:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pp.int.general] Reinier
& PPNL</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Comments below.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2009/1/15 Carlos Ayala Vargas <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:aiarakoa@yahoo.es">aiarakoa@yahoo.es</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>Core TX wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">When
it comes to Reinier his statement,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>First of
all:<BR><BR>- you are Piraten Partij representative, not him; I don't know
why don't you rebuke him for making those menaces -he didn't just threaten
us with Piraten Partij's withdrawal from PPI (very surprising, considering
how he talks about the possibility of withdrawing of European Union), but
also threatens Piraten Partij (maybe if you don't agree with him) with
creating a new party from ScriptumLibre! ("/finally, the Dutch PP is close
to dead, but I try to involve people from ScriptumLibre. Remmebr that in NL
it is relatively easy to found a new political party - so I feel a
responsibility/")-; I don't know why do you consent his behaviour<BR><BR><A
href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2009-January/002549.html"
target=_blank>http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2009-January/002549.html</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR>Vrijschrift/ScriptumLibre ideologie seems to equal Pirate
ideologie. However, we ( PPNL ) where founded after the swedish "Call to arms"
All members have agreed that PPNL will follow the PPI footsteps. The Swedish
Party is the origin, thus we will allow them to veto.Communicateing a mandate
is different from communicateing a ideologie. I sincerely hope you can see the
difference. We wish X because we believe in Y.<BR>Choices should be made
because of facts, not because of someone his believes.If you think
differently, you should consider reinstateing the spanish inquisition, join
the Jihad or start bloweing up cars with the ETA.<BR>We'll see how much succes
hou will have. ( Palestinians got their state /after/ they stopped their Jihad
& started diplomacy. But they did not drop their ideologie ) <BR>( Because
of you temperament, i'd like to say that this is not personal gesture or
insult, just a figure of speech, so dont flame please )<BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>-
he's talking about a new proposal, but where is such proposal? Helsinki
Conference starts on 30th of January, and it would be recommendable to know
whether pirate parties sign any of the drafts or not prior to that, which
would require a reasonably length internal balloting period; when is he
willing to announce his proposal? He is plainly irresponsible.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>No the people not proposeing anything are the ones irresponsible. And
that group of people does not include you, or Reinier.<BR>But it does include
me while i am responsible for the dutch contribution.<BR>As the dutch
representative, i hereby formally declare my trust in Reinier his
words.<BR>And if you trust me thus PPNL, you know he will keep his
word.<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I
stand by his side. I see verry little added value in the new "manifest"
when compared to the original swedish "declaration of principles' that i
use as a main guideline.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>Why do you use the quotes for
manifest? About the /little added value/, first of all, the Swedish
"/declaration of principles/" is just the Swedish one; Pirate Manifesto is
meant to be our common one; about differences, let me show you some examples
comparing that Swedish (do you mean this one <<A
href="http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english"
target=_blank>http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english</A>>?)
with, e.g., Draft C:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>Reinier already pointed out wich dangers it might provide. The only
profit we make is that of union. United we stand, devided we
fall.<BR>Therefore the international /manifest/ must be watertight. So please
be aware of the fact that i did not choose *any* /manifest/ yet.<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>-
general principles<BR>* Piratpartiet "/wants to fundamentally reform
copyright law, get rid of the patent system//, and ensure that citizens'
rights to privacy are respected/"<BR>* Draft C also wants to protect rule of
law, pressumption of innocence and right to a fair trial, fight against
discrimination, deal with Information Society, ask for Government
transparency & accountability, etc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>It looks promiseing, yet you failed to persuade the Swedish. Do you
know why ?<BR>I doubt you do, and are simply trying to push a agenda. ( One i
personally do like )<BR>( Temperament notice: Not a insult, just my
perception, so please do not flame )<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>-
about patents<BR>* Piratpartiet "/wants to /[...]/ get rid of the patent
system/"<BR>* Draft C only aims to reform the patent system, though allowing
PPSE to get rid of it *in the Swedish scope<BR>*</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>When you get rid of it, you eventually end up with a "alternative" .
The difference is merely one that only exists in words.<BR>Yet again, a fine
example of the difference between, communicateing a ideologie, versus
communicateing a direct step forward c.q ( partial ) solution. ( One that
binds you ! )<BR> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>-
about author's rights<BR>* Piratpartiet wants "/non-commercial use/" to "/be
free from day one/"<BR>* Draft C only talks about non-commercial
filesharing, giving room for pirate parties to decide what to do with other
issues like derivative works and such<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>The manifest is about union, Draft C devides us on this
point.<BR>Besides, i agree with Piratpartiet on this one, and it does not
exclude nor include derrivative works etc. ( completely different topic
)<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>-
about non-core issues<BR>* Piratpartiet closes the door to non-core
issues<BR>* Draft C opens the door, for each pirate party, to include
non-core issues as long as they don't oppose or contradict the agreed core
issues; it also talks about allowing citizens to express in non-core issues,
to make us know the right path<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>This is just plain logic or is it not ? Why include it at all ?
<BR>We just need to include what we all stand fore. Not what devides us.
Unless you would like to create a manual for our opponents.<BR>More
importantly, it would cost us our leverage.<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>Etc,
etc. Do you still believe that there little added value there? There is
great added value, being Pirate Manifesto conceived as a /Venn diagram/ of
our goals the most important one -remember, some day will have to act
together in the Europarliament, the WIPO meetings, the UN sessions, etc ...
how would we do it if we even don't know what do we have in common?-.<BR>**
<DIV class=Ih2E3d></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>I agree there should be a uniteing manifest. So does Reinier. I just
do not wish to rush it OR include dangerous statements that lateron can damage
ALL partys<BR>This is as important as writeing a constitution. We will not
even simply choose the best of all available options. We will only choose to
sign if it is perfect.<BR>Unless all other partys sign, since i'd take that as
proof of our misconception. <BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">As
a closeing note, i would like to point out that within a political party
choices are to be made in a democratic fashion.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>I'm
pretty sure of that; even, remember that I suggested you -as you weren't
able for the amendments period to contact your fellow party members- to not
cast Piraten Partij's votes if they were not properly discussed and voted,
so I think that this time, having enough time -and having the previous case
in mind-, your signature will represent Piraten Partij's. Regards,<FONT
color=#888888></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR>I'd be embarrased if i have to ask all members to vote on these
drafts.They are all hard to reach and hell would break loose. I will only
propose a manifest, or drafts after they are all debated.<BR>( Half of them
are not intelligent enough to think about this, and will ask me or Reinier if
it is "good" or not. )<BR>We already have concencus about our ideology. We
just need to say, "This manifest does fit" or "This manifest does not
fit" .<BR>Then we continue focus on solutions. My perception tell me you
are stil in the ideology fase while trying to create a ideology. While Reinier
is in the solution fase, while trying to create a solution.<BR>Maybe we
need 2 different statements, one proposeing a ideology, and one telling
people what the solution looks like.<BR></DIV></DIV><BR>United we stand,
devided we fall.<BR><BR>Samir.<BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>____________________________________________________<BR>Pirate Parties
International - General
Talk<BR>pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<BR>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>