<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Christian Hufgard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pp@christian-hufgard.de">pp@christian-hufgard.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">> "Artists make more money with live concerts than with<br>
</div>> records"<<a href="http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cincodias.com%2Farticulo%2Fsentidos%2Fartistas-ganan-conciertos-discos%2F20090707cdscdscis_10%2Fcdspor%2F&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cincodias.com%2Farticulo%2Fsentidos%2Fartistas-ganan-conciertos-discos%2F20090707cdscdscis_10%2Fcdspor%2F&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8</a>>(translation<br>
<div class="im">> from spanish to english)<br>
><br>
> "An artist does not live from the records he<br>
</div>> sells"<<a href="http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmica.com%2Fdavid_bravo%2Farchivos%2F005075.html&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmica.com%2Fdavid_bravo%2Farchivos%2F005075.html&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8</a>><br>
<br>
And what about the costs? I recently talked to the producer of Söhne<br>
Mannheims (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B6hne_Mannheims" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B6hne_Mannheims</a>) a pretty<br>
successful german band. I think he is a honest guy.<br>
<br>
The figures he gave me:<br>
<br>
CD sales reduced from about 450.000 copies of a single down to about<br>
150.000 while concerts increased from 2.000 peoples to 20.000 peoples. But<br>
they make less money after all.<br></blockquote><div><br>In the links I gave you it is stated that the band gets about 90% of the money made on live concerts. It's also stated that the average ticket costs about 67€. So you say 20.000 people? That's 20.000*0.9*67=1.2 million euros. They are soooo poor.... <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
>>> Can your car be copied with zero cost? Is your car a cultural product?<br>
>><br>
>> Well, I would say, that a car is a product of our culture. And a audio<br>
>> file is not copied with zero cost. Or do you get the hardware for free?<br>
>> The internet access?<br>
>><br>
><br>
> The cost is not cero, but it's almost zero, I think it's called marginal<br>
> cost. I pay about 40€ a month for a 2.5MBytes (20Mbit) per second<br>
> connection, so the marginal cost of lets say downloading 300Mbytes (a<br>
> whole<br>
> discography) is 40*300/(2.5*3600*24*30) =0.185 cents. Even if you counted<br>
> the electricity used and also the cost of the time of using my computer,<br>
> it<br>
> wouldn't amount to 0.2 cents. On the other hand, the cost of copying your<br>
> car is more than 10^7 times higher (that would be a 2000€ car).<br>
<br>
</div>Don't forget the computer itself. :) Of course the costs are pretty low -<br>
but you pay them. You do not use your neighours W-Lan, do you?<br></blockquote><div><br><br>I won't answer the W-Lan question without my lawyer :P<br><br>About the computer, well, the computer is about 5 years old and it costed me about 1000 euros, taking into account that I download 300Mbytes in about 2 mins with my 2.5 Mbytes per sec connection, that amounts to 2/(5*360*24*60)=7*10^-7 euros, so add that to the 0.185 cents and still you won't have pai 0.2 cents.<br>
<br>Yes, I pay the marginal costs, but that's very different from buying a new car, or the whole discography.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
>> >>> I am just freely accessing to culture.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> And the way you do it, you make it pretty less interesting for<br>
>> artists<br>
>> >> to<br>
>> >> "produce" new "culture".<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> That's why there was no music before copyright was invented, I<br>
>> suppose?<br>
>><br>
>> Come on. You can do this better. Do you really see no difference<br>
>> beetween<br>
>> a shepherd playing flute and beethoven or madonna?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
> Madonna? Do you really want me to answer? :P How many records did<br>
> Beethoven<br>
> sell when he was alive?<br>
<br>
</div>That's the point. That time the modell to sell music was totally<br>
different. Would you like it, if musicians would be only paied by rich<br>
people who allow just their friends to visit the concerts?<br>
<br>
The biggest problem of the music industrie is (according to the ceo of<br>
sony music germany), that due to less money especially new artists don't<br>
get the chance to produce good records. Without those records, you don't<br>
have anything to share. And at the end, you do not have a concert to<br>
visit. :9<br>
<div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div><br>I play the guitar (for free) and I know more that just one or two musicians. The problem with the industry of music is the industry itself: it's not necessary, it's obsolete. Music will be created and played live, with or without the music industry. And if all the present famous artistss top producing records, they will be replaced by a new wave of presently unknown artists (me and my friends for example). So I wouldn't care too much about that.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">
<br>
>> Libraries pay for the books and pay for loaning them. They are funded by<br>
>> tax. Just because you do not pay directly, that does not mean, that you<br>
>> pay nothing.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
> That's true in europe, since only about 2 years ago. Before that, we only<br>
> paid for buying the books, then everyone could read them for free (well, a<br>
> marginal cost indeed).<br>
<br>
</div>But once again, a cost that was paied.<br></blockquote><div><br>Of course, because I wouldn't steal a book physically, because if I did, those who had the book would take a gap in exchange. But when I download a song, I'm not creating any gap, in the same way that when someone tells me an idea they still have the idea, even when they have given the idea to me.<br>
</div></div>