<html><body><span style="font-family:Arial; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>No hang on, your method of argument seems to be to attack people for making claims without evidence to back them up, then doing the same yourself, eg "Record companies do pretty more that just pressing records". They do that, as I said myself that you ignored with "They are able to pay the productions costs for a cd", and they also provide marketing and promotion, I've freely admitted that.</div>
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<div>But if there's no need for marketing or promotion <EM>campaigns</EM> - how many can you think of that have been a success of late? - and music is distributed in a way other than via CD, what is the purpose of the record company? There's still a place for musicians, engineers, sound technicians, gig promoters etc, but record companies?</div>
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<div>You've yet to put up a convincing reason for their continued existence, simply attacked people who say they're redundant. If you see a place for them in the digital future, explain to us what that place is.</div>
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<div >-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Protest certain musicians?<BR>From: "Christian Hufgard" <pp@christian-hufgard.de><BR>Date: Thu, October 29, 2009 10:34 am<BR>To: "Pirate Parties International -- General Talk"<BR><pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net><BR><BR>> To add to this, if you take major record companies out of the equation,<BR>> who loses out?<BR><BR>Those 90% who buy the products of the majors who release 20% of the<BR>records - at least in germany.<BR><BR>> Presumably the point of those companies is to be able to produce<BR>> merchandise, including CDs, on a larger scale than an artist could by<BR>> themselves, and to finance marketing campaigns for that music.<BR><BR>They are able to pay the productions costs for a cd.<BR><BR><BR>> Tonight I'm going to see a guy called Frank Turner play in London. Had I<BR>> not ('illegally') downloaded his music I would not be going, that's a<BR>> plain fact, since I wouldn't have heard of him (unless I'd happened upon<BR>> him on myspace, again free).<BR><BR>If he uploads it a MySpace, it is his choice. But why did you download it<BR>illegaly? There are so many site in the net, where you can (pre)listen<BR>music legally. Why don't you support those sites and those artists?<BR><BR><BR>> The price of the ticket was more than the price of his CD. He gets larger<BR>> proportion of the money from the ticket than he would from the album<BR>> (though it was released on an independent label for what it's worth).<BR><BR>How many money does he receive from each ticket?<BR><BR><BR>> If he had to choose between me buying the album or going to his gig,<BR>> which would he choose? Logically, the gig - which I would not be going to<BR>> but for the original download. He's playing Shepherds Bush Empire, a<BR>> fairly large venue for an artist who isn't known for scaling the charts.<BR>> He would be playing a smaller venue and making<BR>> less money were it not for illegal downloads, I very much suspect.<BR><BR>So why don't you just let him keep sitting on his cds, if he does not want<BR>to give you the music for free?<BR><BR><BR>> If he then were to make enough money to be able to produce his own CDs,<BR>> outside of a record label, for those who want them, he has proven the<BR>> redundancy of record companies and the backwardness of the current<BR>> recorded artist system. I'm just using him as an example as I'm seeing<BR>> him tonight, but it's fairly sound logic to my mind.<BR><BR>Record companies do pretty more that just pressing records.<BR><BR>____________________________________________________<BR>Pirate Parties International - General Talk<BR>pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<BR><a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target=_blank>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></span></body></html>