I was wondering why this old subject was discussed today and then the news hit me:<div><a href="http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/cabinet_finalises_road_pricing.php">http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/cabinet_finalises_road_pricing.php</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>The Dutch liberals are trying an interesting EU argument:</div><div><a href="http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/liberals_ask_brussels_about_ki.php">http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/liberals_ask_brussels_about_ki.php</a></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>- Nicolas</div><div> PPI / PPSE member<br><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Andrew Norton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com">ktetch@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im">On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Nicolas Sahlqvist <<a href="mailto:nicco77@gmail.com">nicco77@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Tracking movements with GPS is so far the most integrity concerning<br>
> alternative suggested so far, but already larger cities in NL measure the<br>
> speed for cars entering and exiting the city, the speed cameras register all<br>
> Dutch licence plates and the same when exiting and calculates if the average<br>
> speed is higher then then speed limit, I bet the police is looking at this<br>
> information to track "criminals" movements too when they feel it is needed.<br>
> <a href="http://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/verkeer/english/section_control/" target="_blank">http://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/verkeer/english/section_control/</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.airquality.co.uk/reports/cat09/0505171129_Rotterdam_speed_control_zone_Detailed_Assessment.doc" target="_blank">http://www.airquality.co.uk/reports/cat09/0505171129_Rotterdam_speed_control_zone_Detailed_Assessment.doc</a><br>
<br>
</div>Ah yes, the good old SPECs system. When I did my month's training with<br>
the traffic police in Merseyside (I was training to be an industrial<br>
accident investigator at the time, we had to go to traffic incidents<br>
for practice) they'd just put a specs system up on the M62. From what<br>
I remember, they couldn't access the system for tracking, they<br>
discarded the plates when the last camera in the system was passed,<br>
but this was 2001, so it may have changed since then. (side note, on<br>
that system, they couldn't read the front plate on the 340 I was<br>
driving at the time, as it was mounted under the front bumper)<br>
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> In Sweden there are road tolls in Stockholm, they are handled via cameras<br>
> filming all license plates and radio boxes that regular commuters can buy<br>
> (motivation: discount on fee) and everything is processed at a IBM<br>
> datacenter in Denmark:<br>
> <a href="http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work-live/Government-politics/Reading/Car-tolls-reduce-Stockholm-traffic/" target="_blank">http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work-live/Government-politics/Reading/Car-tolls-reduce-Stockholm-traffic/</a><br>
> <a href="http://lovetomorrowtoday.com/2009/05/12/ibm-stockholm-build-a-smarter-toll-system/" target="_blank">http://lovetomorrowtoday.com/2009/05/12/ibm-stockholm-build-a-smarter-toll-system/</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.ibm.com/podcasts/howitworks/040207/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.ibm.com/podcasts/howitworks/040207/index.shtml</a><br>
<br>
</div>Theres a toll motorway in the UK similar, and of course there's the<br>
London Congestion Zone (itself a development of the old 'ring of<br>
steel' implimented in the 80s). I don't know personally if it's made<br>
any improvement to London traffic though, as i've only ever driven<br>
there once (I usually took the coach down)<br>
<br>
The ANPR cameras are connected to local police stations for<br>
car-flagging, plus they can check tax, insurance, and a bunch of other<br>
things. Some areas even have fleets of cars set up to use ANPR (Essex<br>
has a fleet of Impretza STi and Mitsubishi Evo 8s and 10s for<br>
instance) and liverpools got 30 or so such cars.<br>
<br>
As far as vehicle tax, on purchasing a car, it's low in the UK (thats<br>
why a lot of people now buy a car in the Netherlands, or Belgium,<br>
without the tax - as it's pre-tax price is lower - then bring it to<br>
the UK, and pay the smaller tax there) but the yearly tax is quite<br>
high. Don't think I could go back to paying $200 a year for a tax disc<br>
(for contrast, the equivilent tax for my car/land yacht, due next<br>
month, is about $33.45, the same for my civic, or my 3.1 litre<br>
lumina). Also, if they find your car without tax in the UK, they<br>
impound it, and you've got 14 days. If you've not paid by then, it's<br>
either sold at auction or crushed. Same with Insurance. Sometimes<br>
these systems get it wrong -<br>
<a href="http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/1169259.police_crushed_my_car_even_though_it_was_insured_dad/" target="_blank">http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/1169259.police_crushed_my_car_even_though_it_was_insured_dad/</a><br>
<br>
Despite this, taxes have gone up, not down.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> In Germany there is a debate going on about road tax and it would not<br>
> surprise me if they follow the trend with cameras:<br>
> <a href="http://www.thelocal.de/national/20091105-23049.html" target="_blank">http://www.thelocal.de/national/20091105-23049.html</a><br>
> This is all motivated by environment issues and the privacy issues tends to<br>
> get forgotten...<br>
<br>
</div>The environment is just a nice cover. Really it's about raising money,<br>
and gaining power.<br>
<br>
><br>
> - Nicolas<br>
> PPI / PPSE member<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Andrew<br>
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