Normally I would not enter this discussion if it wasn't so important for the future of PPI which I think is a great idea to have.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Rackham <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:denis.germain@partipirate.org">denis.germain@partipirate.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Le 7 déc. 09 à 00:57, Joonas Mäkinen a écrit :<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
There is no need to<br>
woryr about "focusing on wrong things" here.<br>
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I'm not writing we are out of focus, but that to focus on anything important we really have some issues to iron and clear out seemingly.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Before we can act together in a coordinated way and before we can really stand publicly with one voice, we need to formally found the PPI. Thus I think it would be more important to focus on the discussions how to ameliorate the future work of PPI then to try to create something before having defined clearly how it can work best.</div>
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Le 7 déc. 09 à 03:47, Max Lalouschek | Piratenpartei Österreichs a écrit :<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
And please let's stay civilized by doing so. Accusing others of lying<br>
or calling them idiots doesn't help a bit and has nothing to do with<br>
transparency. I hope we all agree that such a behaviour is completely<br>
childish and shouldn't even happen on PPI level.<br>
</blockquote>
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Sure. I don't believe the whole bunch of us are kindergarten trolls free riding that's why I think there's something inherently W.R.O.N.G in the way PPs and PPi communicate.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>If we were all kindergarten trolls, I could not imagine us having achieved what we already have achieved. But I agree on this point that we need to reorganize the communication paths between PPs and the PPI. If not even the boards of the national parties are aware of PPI business we HAVE a problem.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
(It's AT) I think I speak for the whole Austrian board when I say that<br>
Pertain is one of the few very capable and reliable Pirates, who has<br>
earned our respect and should not be blamed for<br>
structural/organisational deficits.<br>
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Witch hunting is really fun (yaaaaarrrr), but do we have the ressources to be wasted that are permitting us all to burn internationally someone once in a while ? No. ;)</blockquote><div><br></div><div><sarcasm></div>
<div>Why not? We could decimate the number of people willing to work for an international movement considerably by burning them on MLs. And this would probably motivate more and more people to join the movement. ;)</div><div>
</sarcasm></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
That's just too easy. We are<br>
obviously talking of a bigger problem here. However, it should be<br>
dealt with in a civilised manner.<br>
</blockquote>
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- First thing: it is not normal when someone in not answering you, be it inside the coreteam, or inside/between coreteam/PPi and the PPs. That should not be. Being overbooked (as I know some are) is not a reason for not being able to send a quick email telling "way way too much overbooked, can we talk in a few days: [insert date and mode here]"<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>This HAS TO BE normal procedure for the coreteam, I totally understand, that you guys are working hard, I also agree that we cannot have always a complete answer after 24/48 hours, but I would be glad to at least see that someone is looking into my mail. Also because I (as most of the others) have to be transparent with my board so that if I do not get at least an answer telling me: "we do not have time, let's discuss it later" I can't tell anything to my board which is bad for approval of PPI on a national level.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
- Sure the wiki reports helps, but they are only a state of things without the ins and outs and bits. Why not make the irc full talk available _privately_ to each PP boards? (Let's make some Glasnost) In the actual state of things, decisions come out without the necessary background (why, how, what for?) so out of nothing. And worse, in the last 2 months there's been 4 irc meetings without quorum we don't even know what has been talked about even if no decision has been taken.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>I understand Samirs concerns about being completely transparent but I do think that at LEAST the members (the parties) should get ALL information that there is. Including but not limiting to complete IRC-logs, information about meetings with other organizations, status of the incorporation of PPI, etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>This does not have to be open to everyone, but EVERY BOARD should get access to the same informations as the coreteam, because if that is not guaranteed, how can the coreteam be controlled? How can the national boards deliberate onto something they have not ALL the information? This entire discussion could have been avoided if the national boards would have had access to the mentioned information.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Sven Clement</div><div>Chairman PP Luxembourg</div></div>