<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; "><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
The RIR's are being "neutral", and are not airing their ideas.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
We have them on our side, but they can't go political.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
Hence, we should air our opinion. Since we /can/ be political.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
This is not only about countries being able to apply cencorship.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
But also about spammers who can not get IP numbers from RIR's such as <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre-wrap; border-collapse: collapse; ">ripe/apnic/afrinic/arin.</span></pre>
<pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre-wrap;">They might in the future, since their uncle is the sultan of islamistan.</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre-wrap;">Also, this could lead to a "one line legislation" saying, you need to be a ITU member in order to be legally allowed to be a "ISP".</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre-wrap;">You can probably see the danger coming :)</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
Your local "fra" will like it as well, since it will become utmost easy to only tap traffic from a single country. Hence, less diplomatic "conflicts".</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
But they can also more easily hide the fact that they spy on their own citicens.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
While looking at this, keep Q6 in mind !</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
The UN is trying to take full control over the internets.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
On behalf of the EU and US.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
This at the expense of a lot !</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
We can't just let this happen.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:33:27 +0100
From: RIPE NCC <<a href="mailto:ncc@ripe.net" onclick="return rcmail.command('compose','ncc@ripe.net',this)" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; ">ncc@ripe.net</a>>
To: <a href="mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net" onclick="return rcmail.command('compose','ncc-announce@ripe.net',this)" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; ">ncc-announce@ripe.net</a>
Subject: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] ITU and IPv6 Consultation
Dear Colleagues,
On behalf of APNIC, we would like to draw your attention to an important
community consultation taking place on 3 March 2010.
______________________________________________________________________
APNIC Community Consultation Wednesday, 3 March 2010
_____________________________________________________________________
The ITU is considering the possibility of becoming an International
Internet Registry, as well as the possible implementation of a Country
Internet Registry model to use as an alternative to the Regional
Internet Registry system.
APNIC's Community Consultation session on Wednesday, 3 March 2010 is
your opportunity to discuss the issues and ramifications of the ITU's
possible entry into the IP address management arena.
Participate onsite
------------------
Where: Conference Hall 2, Kuala Lumpur Convention Center
When: 14:00 - 15:30
Participate online
------------------
When: Kuala Lumpur time: 14:00 - 15:30
UTC: 6:00 - 7:30
How: Audio and video streaming
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First click on General and then click on Edit.
At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses.</pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; word-wrap: break-word; ">
<br></pre></span><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Mårten Fjällström <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marten.fjallstrom@piratpartiet.se">marten.fjallstrom@piratpartiet.se</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Does not the ITU work on consensus rather then voting?<br>
<br>
Is there a particular member that could be influenced? And who are<br>
members these days? States or phone companies?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Regards,<br>
Mårten Fjällström<br>
Party secretary, piratpartiet<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 17:29 +0100, <a href="mailto:coretx@piratenpartij.nl">coretx@piratenpartij.nl</a> wrote:<br>
> Time for action ! Our failsafe is under attack.<br>
><br>
> -------- Original Message --------<br>
> Subject: Re: [Algemeen] [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU<br>
> IPv6 Group (fwd)<br>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:19:38 +0000 (UTC)<br>
> From: Sven Olaf Kamphuis <<a href="mailto:sven@cb3rob.net">sven@cb3rob.net</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl">algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>, <a href="mailto:aktive@lists.piratenpartei.de">aktive@lists.piratenpartei.de</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> There you go.<br>
><br>
> let the riots commence 2.0....<br>
><br>
> keep in mind, most telcos and ISPs (the founders and members of the<br>
> current IANA -> RIRS -> LIRs model resulting in a global internet which is<br>
> hard to censor) do not agree on this ITU proposal...<br>
><br>
> it's just that the UN and their ITU do...<br>
><br>
> If we allow them to go forward, this WILL result in a "per country"<br>
> easy-to-filter internet in a few years when ipv6 is the only serious<br>
> protocol left.<br>
><br>
> we only need to point out how easy it was for the DDR to simply route<br>
> all phonecalls to "the west" through a room where people monitored<br>
> telephone conversations, and this "country specific prefix" is just what<br>
> the ITU seems to want for the internet.<br>
><br>
> In order to accomplish that they want to create their own address<br>
> registry, for now "secondary" to the ISP/telco run bottom-down RIR system<br>
> (RIPE,ARIN,APNIC,AFRINIC,APNIC) but ofcourse we can't expect it to take<br>
> long before repressive governments start to force "the internets" "in<br>
> their country" to use only the ITU registry...<br>
><br>
> also very nice of them to invite the "RIRS" to be present at their little<br>
> negotiation rounds, where the RIRS can each have one vote against oh eh,<br>
> 150 or so of their members... very democratic.. 5 against 150..<br>
><br>
> And i bet you they'll go "yes but the RIRs were present at our meetings"<br>
> in the end, so its better to just send them a letter telling them to stick<br>
> it where the sun doesn't shine and not even go to their little meetings.<br>
><br>
> How does this relate to our situation in germany:<br>
><br>
> Now for those complaining about me posting to the piratenpartei lists in<br>
> ENOTGERMAN, too bad for you people... the world is slightly larger than<br>
> those 140 million or so people that use german on a daily basis.<br>
><br>
> I can personally assure you von der leyen and schaubele would have had wet<br>
> dreams about this ITU proposal a few months ago still..., and you never<br>
> know, we may get simular politicians again in the future...<br>
><br>
> (makes it -really- easy to filter all kinds of government-undesired<br>
> content and activities...)<br>
><br>
> now -we- can always move our office to some other country and take our tax<br>
> money to some other resort, not a biggie, but don't come complaining to me<br>
> when germany at some point uses this to build their own chinese bigass<br>
> golden firewall with flames coming out of its ass to make it faster.<br>
><br>
> i'd say its better to simply not give them the chance to do so.<br>
><br>
> methods available to isps/telcos to stop this:<br>
><br>
> - point out to governments that -we- own the internet, their economy runs<br>
> over it as a "courtesy" and that we can send them back to the stoneage at<br>
> any time we like by simply dropping 'their' traffic.<br>
><br>
> (considering the fact that governments themselves are not capable of<br>
> running anything but a gray-cheese-with-a-dial telephone network, they<br>
> don't have any other option than to remain friends with us, while -we- can<br>
> move our business to -any- of the 208 countries or so worldwide, wether<br>
> the UN likes those countries or not, and pay taxes -there-, and most of<br>
> the likely candidates are nice and warm and have a beach too and are<br>
> willing to make deals in the "guaranteed information freedom" aspect ;)<br>
><br>
> - if they get this done, simply ignore their registry, maybe introduce<br>
> overlaps<br>
><br>
> - if they get this done, drop the whole ipv6 implementation plans and move<br>
> on to some "next" protocol or even keep ipv4 around if we have to.<br>
><br>
> they need us, we don't need them<br>
><br>
> Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what has your country ever<br>
> done for you.<br>
><br>
> we have the biggest stick in this matter.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:52:04 +0100<br>
> From: Michiel Ettema <<a href="mailto:MEttema@alkmaar.nl">MEttema@alkmaar.nl</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br>
> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6 Group<br>
><br>
> Maybe this will give you an insight in what is planned:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-d/oth/01/0B/D010B0000073301PDFE.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-d/oth/01/0B/D010B0000073301PDFE.pdf</a> page<br>
> 89.<br>
><br>
> - 777<br>
> - 14. As the use of the Internet and other new technologies increase,<br>
> - more criminals are provided with opportunities to commit crimes<br>
> remotely,<br>
> - via telephone lines and data networks. Presently, malicious<br>
> programming<br>
> - code and harmful communications (such as child pornography) may pass<br>
> - through several carriers located in different countries. And<br>
> - infrastructures such as banking and finance increasingly are becoming<br>
> - networked and thereby vulnerable to cyber-attack from distant<br>
> locations.<br>
> - We convene today to provide additional personal attention to and<br>
> - direction for our joint action against this transnational criminality.<br>
><br>
> If the ITU gets registry status I think it wil not be long before their<br>
> Cybercrime legislation proposals will state that the only safe adres<br>
> space<br>
> is ITU adres space. This because a country can subject that adres space<br>
> to their own laws.<br>
><br>
> Now excuse me a minute while I fold my tin foil hat.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<br>
> Van: <a href="mailto:members-discuss-admin@ripe.net">members-discuss-admin@ripe.net</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:members-discuss-admin@ripe.net">members-discuss-admin@ripe.net</a>] Namens Arjan van der Oest<br>
> Verzonden: maandag 1 maart 2010 15:24<br>
> Aan: Andy Davidson; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>; <a href="mailto:nanog@nanog.org">nanog@nanog.org</a><br>
> Onderwerp: RE: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Position On The ITU IPv6<br>
> Group<br>
><br>
> Andy scribbled:<br>
><br>
> >>>> Competition is not a bad thing.<br>
> >>> Competition would be if I could approach the NCC or Pepsi Cola for<br>
> my<br>
> >>> integers for use on the internet. It is not competition if the<br>
> >>> government makes me ask them for some integers.<br>
> >> Assuming that ITU would become a nationwide alternative RIR, you<br>
> still<br>
> >> have the choice to approach NCC, wouldn't you?<br>
> ><br>
> >Why would this automatically be the case ? If governments were<br>
> required<br>
> >to distribute addresses via the national regulator, then the freedom of<br>
><br>
> >choice would NOT be the case.<br>
><br>
> True. Like I said in my initial reply to members-discuss (and while<br>
> playing a devil's advocate role), I'm not entirely sure what it is that<br>
> ITU is striving for : replacing IANA or just becoming a nationwide RIR.<br>
> In the latter case this would not automatically mean (also assuming that<br>
> local governments will not further interfere in this process) that ITU<br>
> would be your one and only one-stop-shop for integers.<br>
><br>
> But anyhow, don't get me wrong. I agree with all that has been said on<br>
> why and how ITU is trying to get a grip on packet switched communication<br>
> networks. My only point it that it might not be a bad idea to ponder on<br>
> the subject of allowing competition between RIR's in the same<br>
> geographical aerea and hence allow ITU to achieve the status of<br>
> nationwide RIR.<br>
><br>
> If Telco's want to request their IP's from ITU instead of RIPE, they<br>
> have my utterly blessings...<br>
><br>
> *zipping my Dr. Pepper*<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Met vriendelijke groet / Kind Regards,<br>
> Worldmax Operations B.V.<br>
><br>
> Arjan van der Oest<br>
> Network Design Engineer<br>
><br>
> T.: +31 (0) 88 001 7912<br>
> F.: +31 (0) 88 001 7902<br>
> M.: +31 (0) 6 10 62 58 46<br>
><br>
> E.: <a href="mailto:arjan.van.der.oest@worldmax.nl">arjan.van.der.oest@worldmax.nl</a><br>
> W.:<a href="http://www.worldmax.nl" target="_blank">www.worldmax.nl</a><br>
> W.:<a href="http://www.aerea.nl" target="_blank">www.aerea.nl</a><br>
> GPG: <a href="https://keyserver.pgp.com/" target="_blank">https://keyserver.pgp.com/</a> (Key ID: 07286F78, fingerprint: 2E9F<br>
> 3AE2 0A8B 7579 75A9 169F 5D9E 5312 0728 6F78)<br>
><br>
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Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
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