I think we need that project and I will work on that. So if anyone wants to join - please feel free.<br><br>Bogo<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/5/3 Joonas Mäkinen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joonasd6@gmail.com">joonasd6@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">What he said. O_o<br>
<br>
2010/5/3, Eric Priezkalns <<a href="mailto:eric.priezkalns@pirateparty.org.uk">eric.priezkalns@pirateparty.org.uk</a>>:<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> I feel this is a mistaken way to deal with a symptom, not a root cause.<br>
><br>
> Yes, there are too few women in the pirate movement. There are also<br>
> too few older people, too few poor, too few ethnic minorities.<br>
><br>
> These people are not in the pirate movement not because of a failure<br>
> to 'mainstream' or 'empower' or any other jargon words that might be<br>
> spoken by a New York Professor of Sociology. They are not in the<br>
> pirate movement because the pirate movement makes too little effort to<br>
> appeal to them. In short, we do not try to explain our policies in<br>
> ways that appeal beyond a audience that is predominantly young, male,<br>
> white and reasonably privileged.<br>
><br>
> The worst thing we could take is to take women, or any other group,<br>
> and place them in a 'special interest' faction. Instead of modifying<br>
> the policy message to make it more appealing to a wider audience, they<br>
> will just be pushed into creating 'special interest' policies. I<br>
> dislike the idea of that intrinsically, but more importantly, that<br>
> approach never seems to work in politics. Voters can see through it<br>
> and it does not appeal to them. In short, if you cannot come up with<br>
> a political philosophy with a core message that is appealing to women<br>
> or any other subset of society, you cannot address that by creating<br>
> specialist policies around the edges. People can innately see the<br>
> special interest policies do not fit with the philosophy and so become<br>
> sceptical about them, and rightly so.<br>
><br>
> If we want more women etc in the movement, the right place to begin is<br>
> not by creating a ghetto for them. The right place is to look at<br>
> ourselves and ask what is in our behaviour that is a barrier to<br>
> inclusion. It is not hard for me to see examples of behaviour that<br>
> leads to exclusion from the pirate movement.<br>
><br>
> When you talk to fellow pirates, it is extraordinary how often the<br>
> conversation ends up in narrow techno-jargon. Well, there is nothing<br>
> wrong with that in itself. Young white men from a certain kind of<br>
> background like talking about that kind of thing. Problem is, it<br>
> probably does not appeal to others so much. If you do not understand<br>
> what somebody is talking about, chances are you will lost interest in<br>
> listening to that person. Similarly, pirates often explain their<br>
> motives using analogies that once again draw on narrow knowledge that<br>
> not everyone would appreciate or understand. I'm a man, and I can<br>
> hold my own in debates where phrases from formal logic crop up, or<br>
> where people talk about an aspect of Microsoft's business model, or<br>
> concerning the merits of STV versus AV, or where someone uses internet<br>
> slang. But not everybody will want to participate in such a<br>
> conversation. Some will just run from it as fast as they can.<br>
><br>
> The real challenge here is to recognize that people like to be around<br>
> and to form communities with other people with a similar outlook.<br>
> There is nothing wrong with, say, young people wanting to canvass the<br>
> support of other young people, and being proud when they win their<br>
> support. But this is the kind of behaviour that can so easily limit<br>
> the horizons of who the party talks to and appeals to. So if we want<br>
> to help the party to appeal to and engage more women supporters, we<br>
> should not push them into a special faction where they disconnect from<br>
> the rest of the party, or are given enhanced 'visibility' because of<br>
> their gender instead of merit. If we want to help the party to appeal<br>
> and engage more women, and any other group in society we fail to<br>
> reach, then we should sit back and think for a while about our own<br>
> behaviour, and how aspects of it might exclude others. We should<br>
> listen to the concerns of people who are not like us, and think about<br>
> what we say that is of relevance to those concerns. If we can all<br>
> learn to modify our language when appropriate, think more of others,<br>
> put ourselves in their shoes, and engage with their concerns in terms<br>
> they relate to, then we really will reach out to more people and help<br>
> both them and us. That needs every pirate to be more open to engaging<br>
> the support of every person on this planet, whatever their gender,<br>
> race, class or whatever. I would rather see every pirate moderating<br>
> their own behaviour and engaging more widely, than the creation of a<br>
> special interest faction with the movement.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
><br>
> Eric<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> From: "Bogomil \"Bogo\" Shopov" <<a href="mailto:bogo@piratskapartia.bg">bogo@piratskapartia.bg</a>><br>
>> Date: 2 May 2010 12:26:34 BST<br>
>> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> Subject: [pp.int.general] Women Pirates project<br>
>> Reply-To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hey again,<br>
>> Here is some ideas and tasks for a project called WOPI. I am looking<br>
>> forward to see you participating.<br>
>> <a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/User:Bogomil/Projects/WOPI" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/User:Bogomil/Projects/WOPI</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
Joonas "JoonasD6" Mäkinen<br>
Varapuheenjohtaja, viceordförande<br>
Piraattinuoret – Piratungdom<br>
<br>
Department of Mathematics and Statistics<br>
Faculty of Science<br>
University of Helsinki<br>
<br>
gsm +358 40 700 5190<br>
____________________________________________________<br>
<div class="im">Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Bogomil "Bogo" Shopov<br>Pirate Party Bulgaria<br><a href="http://piratskapartia.bg">http://piratskapartia.bg</a><br><br>Blogger, FOSS and Mozilla advocate, Digital Rights Warrior.<br>
<br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/bogomep">http://twitter.com/bogomep</a><br>Blog: <a href="http://mozgull.bogomil.info">http://mozgull.bogomil.info</a><br>CV: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/bogomil">http://www.linkedin.com/in/bogomil</a><br>
GPG: 0x03CCF750<br><br>