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Hi Glenn,<br>
<br>
I am afraid that some parts of your email could cause some
controversy and even opposition on this list, even when most of your
points had been posted all across the net by many other people too,
pirates or not.<br>
<br>
In a coin, you always have two sides, trying to put on PP-SE shoes
could help us to get a better understanding of their decision.<br>
<br>
PP-SE got a huge affiliation rate before former EU election.
Probably this was caused by TPB's trial. We do also know that PP-SE
lost a significant amount of members along this year, so I can
understand how these facts caused some internal debate about how to get
these people back.<br>
<br>
Under these circumstances, I guess they made decision of hosting
TPB to get back on the media and regain some of the lost people. They
are probably right at this point, but in my honest opinion, it will not
be as successful as some people believes.<br>
<br>
I do also agree with you that this could be a risky bet. I am also
a bit scared about the mid-long term consequences of this, this is why
I would love to know the argument that made them choose this option.
Can somebody please add some light on this point?<br>
<br>
As recently seen in Iceland, politicians don't have a great
reputation nowadays. I guess that PP-SE got young people's attention
due to the media talking about TPB trial and then PP-SE as well, but
these people probably voted them because PP-SE was not part of the
political establishment, and many net-generation voters could saw PP-SE
as a fresh thing in politics, not because they were a so big TPB
fans/supporters but because it was defending the will of the crowds and
not making promises on everything. In short, PiratPartiet could had
been a good way to express their frustration with politicians and
decision making.<br>
<br>
If the guess is right, this would had been some some kind of
popular protest against the political way of doing, felt too far away
from people and reality by most citizens. Sadly, if this is true,
supporting TPB will not completely fix the lost member's issue.<br>
<br>
Maybe I try to see my country's problems and society everywhere
else, I do apologize if this is not your case.<br>
<br>
At PP-ES we had always the intention to let people express their
opinions in a more efficient way, you know, citizen's participation, on
every topic which is not part of our core program, which is in fact a
minimum expression of what a free society needs: access to culture,
science and uncensored information.<br>
<br>
Nowadays PP-ES internal debate on how to improve citizen's
participation is divided between popular legislation initiatives (our
current official position) or with liquid and/or direct democracy.<br>
<br>
Many of us feel that direct/liquid democracy is the best way to
differentiate from the traditional pyramid-party structures and to the
only option for any critical mind out there. It also makes it much
harder to corrupt, blackmail or lobby.<br>
<br>
Yes, it looks like a bunch of anarchists, isn't it? well most of we
look and feel like that, even without realizing before about what we
probably are... whoever wants freedom, is a libertarian (libert = free)<br>
<br>
So, why not improving these issues in our current democracies? we
(not all PP-ES) think that this could be a good way to attract the vote
of these frustrated citizens, at least it brought us in!!<br>
<br>
I would love to know if other Pirate Parties are having this kind
of debate or do already had it and what was your choose (I do know
there's a Liquid Democracy Task Force at mypirates.net , I promise to
check it more often :D )<br>
<br>
And just to finish, let me share with you something that I hope can
be of profit for all us, some lines by the first American diplomat,
Benjamin Franklin.<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradictions to the sentiments
of<br>
others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbade myself
the use<br>
of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed
opinion,<br>
such as "certainly", "undoubtedly", etc. I adopted instead of them "I<br>
conceive", "I apprehend", or "I imagine" a thing to be so or so; or "so
it<br>
appears to me at present".<br>
<br>
When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied
myself the<br>
pleasure of contradicting him abruptly, and of showing him immediately
some<br>
absurdity in his proposition. In answering I began by observing that in<br>
certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the
present<br>
case there appeared or seemed to me some difference, etc.<br>
<br>
I soon found the advantage of this change in my manner; the
conversations I<br>
engaged in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I proposed
my<br>
opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction. I
had<br>
less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more
easily<br>
prevailed with others to give up their mistakes and join with me when I<br>
happened to be in the right.<br>
<br>
-- Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin<br>
<br>
<br>
Warm wishes,<br>
<br>
Kenneth<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Al 07/07/10 22:21, En/na Glenn Kerbein ha escrit:
<blockquote cite="mid:4C34E1B1.4020003@pirate-party.us" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">All,
The Swedish national elections are due in September. The Piratpartiet
will obviously be running in the elections.
Despite the arduous effort to put a parliamentarian in a Swedish seat,
Piratpartiet's goals are simply a façade. The end goal is to run the
nefarious Pirate Bay from within the confines of the Swedish
Parliament[1]. This only behooves TPB's administrators - they are
exploiting indemnity clauses within Sweden's constitution. There are no
obvious altruistic factors coming into play here. It is doubtful that
Piratpartiet has any goals, reasoning, or platforms slanted towards
social progress and the advancement of legal reform.
This is policy laundering at it's worst - arguably worse than the
backdoor dealings of ACTA. PiratPartiet seems hellbent on blurring the
line between Pirate Party and Pirate Bay.
[1.] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-to-run-tpb-from-parliament-010702/">http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-to-run-tpb-from-parliament-010702/</a>
See also:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/pirate-bay-soon-to-be-hosted-within-swedish-parliament.ars">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/pirate-bay-soon-to-be-hosted-within-swedish-parliament.ars</a>
</pre>
<pre wrap="">
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____________________________________________________
Pirate Parties International - General Talk
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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