Sorry to grave dig an old thread, but I would love to put my two cents into this conversation..<div><br></div><div>Andrew Norton has always been a sniffling know-it-all (who actually knows crap), and is one of the biggest factors to why the Untied States Pirate Party is where it is (the other of course being the United States' insane laws regarding political parties). He hardly represents the actual thought process that the United States Pirate Party has, so hopefully none of you base your opinion on us, based on him. </div>
<div><br></div><div>The arguments you raise in this discussion, are the same ones that we have been having in our IRC channel, and the reason why there are not many people of real talent and background stepping forward to do anything. He makes our party, and he makes PPI look like a joke. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I know this sounds like I am fighting negativity with more negativity... but seriously... every time in both PPI and in USPP affairs anyone ever takes the initiative to do something great, I always see him being the first one to try and make them look like an idiot. There are others too, but Andrew Norton is by far the worst of them. We are a small group in politics, even as a whole collective we make up fractions of voters... we don't need to have anyone (not just Andrew) always being the negative nancy... we need to support each other and make this an enjoyable party to be part of. It's emotionally taxing on anyone who cares about the party, to know how important our goals are, and how little people are paying attention to them, or voting for the same corrupt powers that are in place. When you work so hard, and give so much of your personal time to help the cause, the last thing you want is to be mocked, insulted, etc. by someone on your own side. </div>
<div><br></div><div>We need to stand together, the whole PPI... Its funny that for a Political Party whose main focus it is to share ideas, we don't really share much between parties (at least not much that I have seen). I have been working to build the bond between the US and Canadian parties, which has shown some success... but its still not fully there. Then when people DO share ideas, they get harassed. Thats not acceptable... of course you have your free speech, I am not saying that we should censor these people... but these people should be made aware that their words and actions are not helping anyone. </div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Travis McCrea<div>Volunteer - USPP<br>1(206)552-TRAV (8728)</div><div><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal; "><br></span></i></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Erik Lönroth <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:erik.lonroth@gmail.com">erik.lonroth@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Seems to me that some people are trying to form a top-down<br>
organization, on a bottom-up body.<br>
<br>
If something is to be formed at all, an organization that better<br>
resembles whats going on is needed.<br>
<br>
I'm having a BBQ on Saturday in Södertälje, Sweden, you are all invited.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
/Erik<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Brendan Molloy<br>
<<a href="mailto:brendanmolloy@pirateparty.org.au">brendanmolloy@pirateparty.org.au</a>> wrote:<br>
> Judging by what I've read and my experience of watching PPI evolve,<br>
> perhaps this is more of a case of 'biting off more than can be chewed'<br>
> than incompetence. I'd imagine organising an international<br>
> organisation with very little funds and initially no clear goal to be<br>
> a slow and difficult process.<br>
><br>
> So yes, while I understand the criticisms by Andrew, perhaps instead<br>
> of simply laying blame upon the board for inaction or incompetence, an<br>
> open discussion with the board about the problems they are facing with<br>
> development of PPI and what we can do to help is in order.<br>
><br>
> If after these discussions no clear resolution can be found, maybe we<br>
> consider restructuring PPI to better suit the workload so that a more<br>
> rigid delegation of tasks takes place and responsibilities are clearly<br>
> defined.<br>
><br>
> However, on the note of statutes, that was a massive screw up without<br>
> a doubt, but it happens and can be resolved in the future. What is<br>
> important is remembering that what will make PPI succeed is not the<br>
> board but the members.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 6 October 2010 10:57, Rodrigo Pereira <<a href="mailto:rodrigo2kpereira@gmail.com">rodrigo2kpereira@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I agree kenneth,<br>
>><br>
>> I think a positive way is organize the the next conference and learn by<br>
>> errors of PPI. I think Andrew have their reasons and this will be considered<br>
>> in the next conference, I hope. I have the intention to be present in the<br>
>> next conference despite the fact of pirate party of Brazil is passing by the<br>
>> same obstacles like bureaucracy and difficult to do things clear. I have<br>
>> many ideas about PPI that I plan expose on the next conference.<br>
>><br>
>> Now, I propose that PPI use your statutes-based banking account to raise<br>
>> funds to the next conference. This don't need to be passed by 3 ou 5 IRC<br>
>> meetings, this is a permanent work. I don't have news about PPI's money, Is<br>
>> ZERO? It is? No problem, we can start raise funds now. PPI is silent in many<br>
>> points and I can't stand this.<br>
>><br>
>> So PPI board, I beg, start raise funds and give the chance for the next<br>
>> conference whatever the place. Help to organize the next conference.<br>
>><br>
>> Sincerely,<br>
>><br>
>> Rodrigo Pereira<br>
>> Brazil<br>
>><br>
>> 2010/10/5 Andrew Norton <<a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com">ktetch@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
>>> Hash: SHA1<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 10/5/2010 5:53 PM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:<br>
>>> > Andrew,<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Maybe it's my current headache, however, this is the third time in<br>
>>> > few days that I wanted to tell you something, and finally here we goes.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Can you try to build instead of destroy? Are you always like this?<br>
>>><br>
>>> You see the PPI, I helped build it (I was it's first head)<br>
>>> You see the PPUS ,I helped build that (also it's first 'head' when it<br>
>>> was established formally, rather than as just a group of people)<br>
>>><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > As you can see, I am getting rid of your attitude, maybe you can be<br>
>>> > right in some things, but you fail as a whole.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > I'm not at the PPI board at all, but as a member of this list, it's<br>
>>> > quite obvious that you're not positively contributing to anything. Can I<br>
>>> > ask you something? is there any other pirate in the US who is a kind<br>
>>> > person so he/she can replace you in this list?<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > If you have something to purpose, do it. If you have any issue,<br>
>>> > politely ask for help/fix. But if you only want to troll, please, shout<br>
>>> > up.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> I have issues. I have issues with how PPI is run. and I did make a<br>
>>> proposal. I proposed, 10 days ago, that the board act like big boys, and<br>
>>> stand behind their actions, and honestly judge themselves, as they would<br>
>>> judge others.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Frankly, if you don't like people being called out for their actions,<br>
>>> and publicly shamed for them (because there's no other way, it seems, to<br>
>>> replace the board this side of April, except by shaming them with their<br>
>>> (in)actions into resigning) then you might want to take your toys, and<br>
>>> go home. Or is it ok for you to do that to established politicians, but<br>
>>> not to those that CLAIM to support the same things.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Andrew<br>
>>><br>
>>> (and there's other US pirates on here, but none have the years of<br>
>>> experience of dealing with this list and the people on it, as I have,<br>
>>> nor am I alone in my dissatisfaction)<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Regards,<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Kenneth<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Al 05/10/10 23:33, En/na Andrew Norton ha escrit:<br>
>>> >> PPI Incompetence shines through again.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> - From todays meeting<br>
>>> >> <a href="http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board_Minutes_2010-10-05" target="_blank">http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Board_Minutes_2010-10-05</a><br>
>>> >> "PP-US: we are certain that we did not got any confimation from USPP<br>
>>> >> after the conference regarding their PPI Membership. They are more than<br>
>>> >> welcome to submit an application for Membership for the next<br>
>>> >> conference,<br>
>>> >> though. "<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> They are certain. They're so certain, they've not asked us for any kind<br>
>>> >> of information on it. Not a single 'well, how and when did you submit<br>
>>> >> it?' - kinda hard to be certain. For all they know, it was accidentally<br>
>>> >> misfiled as spam and deleted.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> What we have again is the current PPI board trying to gloss over their<br>
>>> >> failings in basic activities. after a 30 second check of their inbox,<br>
>>> >> they're *certain* - probably the same certain, that Gregory was that<br>
>>> >> we'd have the statutes before the conference (he's got a great track<br>
>>> >> record)<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Let's also remind ourselves of our esteemed leader's goals for 2010 if<br>
>>> >> elected.<br>
>>> >> Gregory<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> (<a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Gregory_Engels.2C_Germany" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Gregory_Engels.2C_Germany</a>)<br>
>>> >> "The goal is to strengthen and build support for the international<br>
>>> >> pirate movement - including giving kick-start to new pirate parties,<br>
>>> >> and<br>
>>> >> preparing a big international pirate conference. On the personal and<br>
>>> >> more local side - to ensure that the Pirate Party of Hesse participates<br>
>>> >> in the "foreigners elections" in November."<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Building support for hte international pirate movement. Anyone feel<br>
>>> >> supported?<br>
>>> >> Kick start to new parties - can't say much there.<br>
>>> >> Preparing a big international conference - Well, his goal for 2010 here<br>
>>> >> is completely busted. Not only is the next one now NOT in 2010, but he<br>
>>> >> wants someone else to organise it.<br>
>>> >> The Hesse election bit - well, this one pretty much violates the<br>
>>> >> statutes he himself wrote.<br>
>>> >> BOARD<br>
>>> >> XII. Board<br>
>>> >> (1) Pirate Parties International is managed by the Board, the executive<br>
>>> >> organ. Its Members shall consider the interests of the Pirate<br>
>>> >> Movement as a whole and shall neither consider themselves, nor be<br>
>>> >> considered, as representing any particular Member or non-member<br>
>>> >> Organization or Region.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> When he can't even run for the job in accordance with the rules for the<br>
>>> >> job he wrote, it's a clear sign of incompetence.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Jerry, our other co-president made the following campaign pledge<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> (<a href="http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Jerry_Weyer.2C_Luxembourg" target="_blank">http://int.piratenpartei.de/PPI_board_candidates_2010#Jerry_Weyer.2C_Luxembourg</a>)<br>
>>> >> "Establish Pirate Party in Luxembourg, provide the PPI with a legal<br>
>>> >> basis (statutes), increase international cooperation between pirate<br>
>>> >> parties (with the help of PPI)"<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> 3 items. The first ALSO falls foul of the statutes, mentioned in the<br>
>>> >> second (the statutes which also have a significant lacking, as I'll<br>
>>> >> mention again, there is no means to remove a board member for sheer<br>
>>> >> incompetence - oversight, or deliberate, you judge), and the 3rd item<br>
>>> >> he<br>
>>> >> has also failed miserably at.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> 10 days ago, I wrote an email, saying that the board needed to either<br>
>>> >> get their backsides in gear and DO THEIR JOBS, or resign. There is just<br>
>>> >> under 2 weeks left. So far, nothing has changed. It's still 'looking<br>
>>> >> for<br>
>>> >> someone else to do xyz' and 30-second certainties.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> One of the reasons the Pirate Party started, is because people were<br>
>>> >> tired of politicians saying, and promising something, then not doing it<br>
>>> >> or stabbing us in the back. Right now, that's EXACTLY the kind of<br>
>>> >> people<br>
>>> >> we have running the PPI. PPI as a concept is too important to leave to<br>
>>> >> these incompetents, bumbling around like a political Inspector<br>
>>> >> Clouseau.<br>
>>> >> Right now, their pride, and their arrogance is hurting us all. If you<br>
>>> >> can't handle the position (and you, collectively, have shown you can't)<br>
>>> >> then step down, and let someone who can do so. No-one would think any<br>
>>> >> less of you because of it. However, when you make a shoddy product, are<br>
>>> >> called on it, and keep on making a shoddy product, then people DO think<br>
>>> >> less of you.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> > ____________________________________________________<br>
>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>>> > <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>>> > <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > ____________________________________________________<br>
>>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>>> > <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>>> > <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> - --<br>
>>> Andrew Norton<br>
>>> <a href="http://ktetch.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://ktetch.blogspot.com</a><br>
>>> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]<br>
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>>><br>
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>>> =XiOA<br>
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>>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Regards,<br>
> Brendan Molloy<br>
> Pirate Party Australia<br>
><br>
> M: +61 434 069 776<br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>