I didn't read the entire thread. But there is no need to target US Senat.<div><br></div><div>Senator WYDEN has declared that he will oppose the COICA Bill.</div><div><br></div><div>As I could understand from what I read around the US blogs y newspaper</div>
<div>if a US Senator oppose a Bill, this one get suspended for a maximum of 6</div><div>months, and in even some news report they said that he might be joined in </div><div>this opposition by the Senator that represent the district where Hollywood is situated</div>
<div><br></div><div>I paste and copy of a mail I received from Demandprogress.org. They are a</div><div>site where you could sign a petition to stop COICA.</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="border-collapse:collapse;font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px">Jean-Francois -- big news! Yesterday the Senate Judiciary Committee voted unanimously to send the Internet blacklist bill to the full Senate, but it was quickly stopped by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) who denounced it as "a bunker-buster cluster bomb" aimed at the Internet and pledged to "do everything I can to take the necessary steps to stop it from passing the U.S. Senate."</span></div>
<span style="border-collapse:collapse;font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p>Wyden's opposition practically guarantees <strong>the bill is dead this year</strong> -- and next year the new Congress will have to reintroduce the bill and start all over again. But even that might not happen: Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Hollywood's own senator, told the committee that <em>even she</em> was uncomfortable with the Internet censorship portion of the bill and hoped it could be removed when they took it up again next year!</p>
<p>This is incredible -- and all thanks to you. Just a month ago, the Senate was planning to pass this bill unanimously; now even the senator from Hollywood is backing away from it. <strong>But this fight is far from over</strong> -- next year, there's going to be hearings, negotiations, and even more crucial votes. We need to be there, continuing to fight."</p>
<p></p><p>Keep on fighting,</p><p>-- Aaron Swartz, David Segal, and the Demand Progress team</p><p></p><p><br></p>
</span><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/11/20 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general-request@lists.pirateweb.net</a>></span><br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Choms)<br>
2. Re: UK action idea: in schools (Erik L?nroth)<br>
3. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Partidul Piratilor)<br>
4. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)<br>
5. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Rodrigo dA)<br>
6. Re: PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback (Andrew Norton)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:56:37 +0100<br>
From: Choms <<a href="mailto:choms@botmania.net" target="_blank">choms@botmania.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:B0A3661C-914C-4545-B208-F59AFBE6D188@botmania.net" target="_blank">B0A3661C-914C-4545-B208-F59AFBE6D188@botmania.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
El 20/11/2010, a las 20:27, Andrew Norton escribi?:<br>
<br>
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><br>
> On 11/20/2010 2:10 PM, Choms wrote:<br>
>> LOL, ok, I think this was a list of a political party, but I say no, and if u can insult, me too.<br>
>><br>
>> Sir, I think you are a Great idiot.<br>
>><br>
> And you're free to think that. You're not the first on this list to say<br>
> it, and you won't be the last. Mostly, the ones that have said it in the<br>
> past, aren't around any more, and yet, 4 years on, I'm still here.<br>
><br>
<br>
Like Fraga... time to jubilation, don't think so?<br>
<br>
>> Well, if you can read <a href="http://piratepad.net/LE3F6FmYBO" target="_blank">http://piratepad.net/LE3F6FmYBO</a>, you'll see it's not a bunch of idiots who want DDoS things. That, at my point of view, is a great project. Why you needed to shout shit to anonops for asking they stoping? there's ways to say things, and no only spreading shit over your friends...<br>
>><br>
> Yes I know, a little under two weeks ago, I did an interview with some<br>
> journos over there, with some of the O:P people. Was a few hours after<br>
> they did this interview with TF -<br>
> <a href="http://torrentfreak.com/behind-the-scenes-at-anonymous-operation-payback-111015/" target="_blank">http://torrentfreak.com/behind-the-scenes-at-anonymous-operation-payback-111015/</a><br>
><br>
> Where do you think the idea for the letter came from?<br>
><br>
<br>
Yeah, the deal was: hey, you can say shit about me and then you receive the good press... I think the deal was "we let you publish a letter when you write good things about me, and ask us to stop, and then we stop so we both have good press". You disregarded your part of the deal...<br>
<br>
Btw, I'm not talking in name of anonops, it's simply my personal opinion because I'm raging at the faggotry on this list...<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:07:17 +0100<br>
From: Erik L?nroth <<a href="mailto:erik.lonroth@gmail.com" target="_blank">erik.lonroth@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] UK action idea: in schools<br>
To: <a href="mailto:rms@gnu.org" target="_blank">rms@gnu.org</a>, Pirate Parties International -- General Talk<br>
<<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge%2BOZCqeqfNt@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">AANLkTinpb22S_aSW0gC_HqKJzw8SfGi8ge+OZCqeqfNt@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Come back to the thread. It was interesting<br>
<br>
"Sharing is good" - campaign. But that means we need alot of people to<br>
step up and perform.<br>
<br>
Someone, a few probably, with experience, authority and will to lead<br>
campaigns must step forward and take the lead. I'm prepared to follow<br>
for a while.<br>
<br>
/Erik<br>
<br>
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Richard Stallman <<a href="mailto:rms@gnu.org" target="_blank">rms@gnu.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ? ?As I am sure you can guess I am personally<br>
> ? ?very interested in the inherent conflict between free speech, consumer<br>
> ? ?rights and Intellectual property ownership.<br>
><br>
> The term "intellectual property" is vague. ?Which laws do you mean? ?I<br>
> would guess that you're talking about copyright, but when that vague<br>
> term is used, it gives no clue to what the issue is.<br>
><br>
> I suggest using specific terms such as "copyright" and rejecting the<br>
> vague "intellectual property".<br>
><br>
> See <a href="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html" target="_blank">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html</a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Richard Stallman<br>
> President, Free Software Foundation<br>
> 51 Franklin St<br>
> Boston MA 02110<br>
> USA<br>
> <a href="http://www.fsf.org" target="_blank">www.fsf.org</a>, <a href="http://www.gnu.org" target="_blank">www.gnu.org</a><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:13:52 +0200<br>
From: Partidul Piratilor <<a href="mailto:contact@partidulpiratilor.ro" target="_blank">contact@partidulpiratilor.ro</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<AANLkTim2M=<a href="mailto:RiAfhsyQS6d%2BaciGyB2ePKH%2B-Ro53SNbfi@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">RiAfhsyQS6d+aciGyB2ePKH+-Ro53SNbfi@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who<br>
wrote the letter.<br>
<br>
Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the letter.<br>
The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves the<br>
interests of MPAA and the likes.<br>
It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation and<br>
the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law? It's<br>
interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and laws<br>
you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?<br>
<br>
PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks<br>
it's only a statement.<br>
<br>
Cristian<br>
Romanian PP spokesperson<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500<br>
From: Andrew Norton <<a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com" target="_blank">ktetch@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4CE831CB.9090303@gmail.com" target="_blank">4CE831CB.9090303@gmail.com</a>><br>
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On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:<br>
> First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who<br>
> wrote the letter.<br>
<br>
Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have<br>
shown, he's not really one for facts.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the<br>
> letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves<br>
> the interests of MPAA and the likes.<br>
<br>
Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.<br>
The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an<br>
agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to<br>
the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like<br>
the degree the original O:P did.<br>
<br>
> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation<br>
> and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?<br>
<br>
We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some<br>
laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way<br>
anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.<br>
<br>
>It's<br>
> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and<br>
> laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?<br>
<br>
Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political<br>
party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a<br>
much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana<br>
wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that<br>
have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed<br>
though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's<br>
written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.<br>
<br>
><br>
> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks<br>
> it's only a statement.<br>
><br>
> Cristian<br>
> Romanian PP spokesperson<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
<br>
- --<br>
Andrew Norton<br>
<a href="http://ktetch.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://ktetch.blogspot.com</a><br>
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]<br>
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<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:59:58 +0000<br>
From: Rodrigo dA <<a href="mailto:rata_0071@hotmail.com" target="_blank">rata_0071@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <SNT129-W5871B1DA75D3A208AE9576903B0@phx.gbl><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
<br>
I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly reasonable when<br>
those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.<br>
We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's not like<br>
they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD<br>
<br>
-rodrigo<br>
> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com" target="_blank">ktetch@gmail.com</a><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
><br>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
> Hash: SHA1<br>
><br>
> On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:<br>
> > First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who<br>
> > wrote the letter.<br>
><br>
> Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have<br>
> shown, he's not really one for facts.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the<br>
> > letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves<br>
> > the interests of MPAA and the likes.<br>
><br>
> Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.<br>
> The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an<br>
> agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to<br>
> the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like<br>
> the degree the original O:P did.<br>
><br>
> > It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation<br>
> > and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?<br>
><br>
> We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some<br>
> laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way<br>
> anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.<br>
><br>
> >It's<br>
> > interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and<br>
> > laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?<br>
><br>
> Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political<br>
> party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a<br>
> much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana<br>
> wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that<br>
> have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed<br>
> though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's<br>
> written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks<br>
> > it's only a statement.<br>
> ><br>
> > Cristian<br>
> > Romanian PP spokesperson<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ____________________________________________________<br>
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> > <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> - --<br>
> Andrew Norton<br>
> <a href="http://ktetch.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://ktetch.blogspot.com</a><br>
> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]<br>
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> =eKzv<br>
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:12:03 -0500<br>
From: Andrew Norton <<a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com" target="_blank">ktetch@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4CE839A3.5030505@gmail.com" target="_blank">4CE839A3.5030505@gmail.com</a>><br>
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On 11/20/2010 3:59 PM, Rodrigo dA wrote:<br>
> I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly reasonable when<br>
> those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.<br>
<br>
Right, and it may be acceptable in many countries. In the US, however,<br>
it just gets our party status stripped. That's why it's a no-go.<br>
<br>
> We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's not like<br>
> they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD<br>
<br>
Actually, many did. It seems to be a hard-core 'few' that won't put down<br>
their 'LOIC' script and do something productive, rather than<br>
counterproductive.<br>
<br>
See, here's what I've been hearing. I have some contacts who have<br>
contacts in Senators offices. One of the reasons for COICA passing the<br>
Judiciary Committee so easily, is because of O:P. I *THEN* heard from<br>
some other sources, that O:P was so 'upset' about it, that they were<br>
thinking about targeting either the whole senate site (<a href="http://www.senate.gov" target="_blank">www.senate.gov</a>)<br>
or just the committee site (<a href="http://judiciary.senate.gov" target="_blank">judiciary.senate.gov</a>). Apparantly, that<br>
didn't happen, but it isn't exactly out of character for them - they<br>
have attacked government websites as part of their campaign.<br>
<br>
They are not harmless kids, protesting. They're doing a stupid thing<br>
which is hurting all of us, giving the ideas behind our movement a<br>
negative connotation. Does anyone HONESTLY think this 'civil<br>
disobedience' is viewed as something other than a temper-tantrum by<br>
'those in power' and then used as an excuse to push through laws?<br>
Hell, does anyone actually think O:P did anything positive at all? The<br>
best you can say is that they pushed the timetable up a little on the<br>
SRA investigations of ACS:law and Davenport Lyons, and got the<br>
(completely toothless) UK information Commissioner's office involved.<br>
<br>
The ONLY long lasting result from Operation:payback, and indeed any<br>
other such action, is an increased crackdown, and a negative public<br>
opinion. The question is, if they really are so passionate for the goals<br>
they claim, why they're doing everything they can to work against it?<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
><br>
> -rodrigo<br>
>> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:ktetch@gmail.com" target="_blank">ktetch@gmail.com</a><br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>
>><br>
> On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:<br>
>> First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who<br>
>> wrote the letter.<br>
><br>
> Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have<br>
> shown, he's not really one for facts.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the<br>
>> letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves<br>
>> the interests of MPAA and the likes.<br>
><br>
> Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.<br>
> The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an<br>
> agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to<br>
> the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like<br>
> the degree the original O:P did.<br>
><br>
>> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation<br>
>> and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?<br>
><br>
> We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some<br>
> laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way<br>
> anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.<br>
><br>
>>It's<br>
>> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and<br>
>> laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?<br>
><br>
> Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political<br>
> party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a<br>
> much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana<br>
> wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that<br>
> have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed<br>
> though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's<br>
> written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks<br>
>> it's only a statement.<br>
><br>
>> Cristian<br>
>> Romanian PP spokesperson<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> ____________________________________________________<br>
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
><br>
><br>
____________________________________________________<br>
Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
<a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
> ____________________________________________________<br>
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>
> <a href="mailto:pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net" target="_blank">pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general" target="_blank">http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general</a><br>
<br>
<br>
- --<br>
Andrew Norton<br>
<a href="http://ktetch.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://ktetch.blogspot.com</a><br>
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]<br>
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End of pp.international.general Digest, Vol 45, Issue 34<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>