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O:P failed anyway, if they listen to the letter (even a few) your image will <br>recover, politicians will know they can work with you and hopefully you can get <br>laws changed by legal means.<br>If that fails i think there will be more attacks (even though ddos doesn't really hurt them) <br>and we'll have this discussion again.<br><br>-rodrigo<br><br>> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:12:03 -0500<br>> From: ktetch@gmail.com<br>> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>> <br>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>> Hash: SHA1<br>> <br>> On 11/20/2010 3:59 PM, Rodrigo dA wrote:<br>> > I personally don't agree, civil disobedience is perfectly reasonable when<br>> > those in powers have their own agenda and don't pay attention.<br>> <br>> Right, and it may be acceptable in many countries. In the US, however,<br>> it just gets our party status stripped. That's why it's a no-go.<br>> <br>> > We should focus on changing those laws and let anon alone, it's not like<br>> > they are going to say Ok and stop the attacks anyway xD<br>> <br>> Actually, many did. It seems to be a hard-core 'few' that won't put down<br>> their 'LOIC' script and do something productive, rather than<br>> counterproductive.<br>> <br>> See, here's what I've been hearing. I have some contacts who have<br>> contacts in Senators offices. One of the reasons for COICA passing the<br>> Judiciary Committee so easily, is because of O:P. I *THEN* heard from<br>> some other sources, that O:P was so 'upset' about it, that they were<br>> thinking about targeting either the whole senate site (www.senate.gov)<br>> or just the committee site (judiciary.senate.gov). Apparantly, that<br>> didn't happen, but it isn't exactly out of character for them - they<br>> have attacked government websites as part of their campaign.<br>> <br>> They are not harmless kids, protesting. They're doing a stupid thing<br>> which is hurting all of us, giving the ideas behind our movement a<br>> negative connotation. Does anyone HONESTLY think this 'civil<br>> disobedience' is viewed as something other than a temper-tantrum by<br>> 'those in power' and then used as an excuse to push through laws?<br>> Hell, does anyone actually think O:P did anything positive at all? The<br>> best you can say is that they pushed the timetable up a little on the<br>> SRA investigations of ACS:law and Davenport Lyons, and got the<br>> (completely toothless) UK information Commissioner's office involved.<br>> <br>> The ONLY long lasting result from Operation:payback, and indeed any<br>> other such action, is an increased crackdown, and a negative public<br>> opinion. The question is, if they really are so passionate for the goals<br>> they claim, why they're doing everything they can to work against it?<br>> <br>> Andrew<br>> <br>> > <br>> > -rodrigo<br>> >> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:38:35 -0500<br>> >> From: ktetch@gmail.com<br>> >> To: pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback<br>> >><br>> > On 11/20/2010 3:13 PM, Partidul Piratilor wrote:<br>> >> First: We protest against the subject line: it was PP US and PP UK who<br>> >> wrote the letter.<br>> > <br>> > Choms is quite clearly an O:P member. As the rest of his email's have<br>> > shown, he's not really one for facts.<br>> > <br>> > <br>> >> Second: Romanian PP does not endorse the way things were said in the<br>> >> letter. The Operation was already fading and the new dispute only serves<br>> >> the interests of MPAA and the likes.<br>> > <br>> > Well, yes. We did write the letter fairly and without mass accusation.<br>> > The way certain members of it have responded does give the sense of an<br>> > agent provocateur involved with O:P. While the new 'dispute' may play to<br>> > the MPAA and their ilk, it currently has not done so to anything like<br>> > the degree the original O:P did.<br>> > <br>> >> It's interesting to see if any link exists between the FBI investigation<br>> >> and the fact that some pirates got suddenly on the side of the law?<br>> > <br>> > We in the US have always been on the side of the law. Now, wanting some<br>> > laws changed, that's different from breaking those laws. That way<br>> > anarchy lies, and anarchy serves no-one.<br>> > <br>> >>It's<br>> >> interesting to see how there are laws you respect (computer crime) and<br>> >> laws you don't (copyright). Any criteria on choosing them?<br>> > <br>> > Actually, we respect *ALL* laws (it's a requirement for a political<br>> > party in the US, if it isn't in Romania, great, you're operating in a<br>> > much nicer, easier system than we are. The likes of Sanziana Buruiana<br>> > wouldn't even get started here, except in maybe one or two states that<br>> > have sane ballot access laws). There are some laws we want changed<br>> > though. However, the computer crimes one isn't one of them, as it's<br>> > written pretty fairly, and does deal with a problem.<br>> > <br>> > <br>> >> PS: Please do not bother to respond. Although it contains question marks<br>> >> it's only a statement.<br>> > <br>> >> Cristian<br>> >> Romanian PP spokesperson<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> >> ____________________________________________________<br>> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> >> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> > <br>> > <br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> <br>> > ____________________________________________________<br>> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> > pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br>> <br>> <br>> - -- <br>> Andrew Norton<br>> http://ktetch.blogspot.com<br>> Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]<br>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)<br>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/<br>> <br>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM6DmiAAoJECjjuYTW3X5Hc/4H/0J67947+YPAoTmQJhw+kfb7<br>> eZzPGWwTu10pnc2NJN/aebRIxVNmmJALMJKbNB5TrUZPUn2YveRai4HfUtCdoT2+<br>> jp+WTLWvJhwL+UGCyaBO5SUA7DfeQEZSDrVGzUrcBUWB5gEGK0N+O1Hf1RfJ3yd8<br>> XJPMCK1Ot1aetip69udwfoMhVFHgwcSxuSdpfupTufO0F/+1FZAxyy0oQf/lptTq<br>> UAUocMF8I4aqcsc+wWRBGiVz6wTxiEFHQaCgMxMOzLZeN10T8gJgT2Vvna2rfAkf<br>> jjCZd+NbgjbZzBcTmu38N+jWFv5QQmB6Lh5LYa1qKBBb9EQzPmzjXvS8JAT+K1k=<br>> =GcCx<br>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>> ____________________________________________________<br>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk<br>> pp.international.general@lists.pirateweb.net<br>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general<br> </body>
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